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I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

lof.flounder.online

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Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#31

Post by cjbgkagh »

lelanthran wrote: post #18
jaspax wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone Why not? If you think that smartphone usage is harmful to your child, then you absolutely are justified in letting them be "that kid". Being moderately socially constrained is actually a perfectly fine thing if the alternative is worse. > Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributin…

> Why not? If you think that smartphone usage is harmful to your child, then you absolutely are justified in letting them be "that kid". It's a trade-off - is peer ostracisation worth the benefits from lack of tech? Most people, myself included, would say "No". > Being moderately socially constrained is actually a perfectly fine thing if the alternative is worse. It is not a moderate social constraint , it's a comple…

Don’t forget that those peers are also being damaged and may not make the best friends.

From my observation children are increasingly dysfunctional.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#32

Post by anaisbetts »

This reads like prepper content - there are many legitimately scary reasons to control kids' access to the Internet, and "kids might be targeted by ads" is on like page 83. Think like a security dev and focus on threat modeling, kids falling into the right-wing / white supremacy pipeline and being exposed to predatory adults online are far more worrying.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#33

Post by jaspax »

lelanthran wrote: post #18
jaspax wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone Why not? If you think that smartphone usage is harmful to your child, then you absolutely are justified in letting them be "that kid". Being moderately socially constrained is actually a perfectly fine thing if the alternative is worse. > Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributin…

> Why not? If you think that smartphone usage is harmful to your child, then you absolutely are justified in letting them be "that kid". It's a trade-off - is peer ostracisation worth the benefits from lack of tech? Most people, myself included, would say "No". > Being moderately socially constrained is actually a perfectly fine thing if the alternative is worse. It is not a moderate social constraint , it's a comple…

I'm curious about this peer group in which failure to have a cellphone results in "complete and utter exclusion". My nieces and nephews are in this age range (10-13 yrs), and none of them have cell phones, and none of them suffer total exclusion from their peer groups. As far as I can tell, they're all socially active and popular. Apparently it's different where you live, but I would take that as a bad sign on several levels.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#34

Post by hans1729 »

PeterBarrett wrote: post #10

I don't have kids yet but it is something that has been discussed about my nieces and nephews. As you say, you don't want your kids to become social pariahs but you also don't want to give them smart phones, in this day and age it looks like the two are intrinsically linked, which is disappointing. I would like to say that we can teach kids to have a healthy relationship with the internet and social media but sites l…

>I would like to say that we can teach kids to have a healthy relationship with the internet and social media but sites like TicTok are engineered to be as addictive as possible so that would be naïve of me to say.

I don't think so. Don't underestimate the intelligence of kids. If your kid actually understands the way dopamine works (on a sufficient level), they will cultivate their own way of attention-management. That's perfectly doable, kids just soak up knowledge. They have to learn it anyway, so the later you start, the worse the consequences of both social isolation and bad usage-culture will be.

/edit:

to add to my original point, when your kids decide for themselves that they want something, and they feel that you are unfairly restricting their access to it, the consequence will be that they demonize you. Where that leads, for them, for their relationship with you, for the other points you're trying to get across, is never a good place. Be very careful about it.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#35

Post by aa-jv »

The answer to any technology-oriented problem is better communication.

I had problems with my kids use of social media - until I involved myself in it with them, so that I could see the things they were learning and enjoying. And then, having established the reality of their world, I communicated with them about my concerns - the tracking, the groupthink, the dangers of online interactions with strangers.

Most important of all, I gained their trust and inspected their phones, and read their conversations. Yes, there were definitely things to be concerned about - and so we discussed it, rationally, and have established a 'review schedule' where I can get involved in their digital lives a little more.

Its not easy. Teenagers are obstinate and difficult at best of times. But parenting is important, and the basis of all good parenting is the ability to communicate with your kids.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#36

Post by lrvick »

My family operates virtually entirely on open source software, and we self host most of it. Surveillance capitalism is the new tobbacco and you really can live a rich (and even tech filled!) life without it, I promise. We also won't be giving any kids smartphones. Too many apps literally designed to profit by exploiting the emotions of children.

We will however give them access to all sorts of entertainment their friends won't have access to. They can play with my large collection of mechanical puzzles, or read from our large collection of books. I can teach them to build and fly FPV aircraft, how to solder and make their own electronics, how to pick locks, how to write their own software, compile their own desktop operating system, how to build their own computers, how to build their own electric skateboard, how to setup a digital music player, how to navigate with a map, how to yoyo, do magic tricks, play board and card games, or play with any of the 20+ retro game consoles I have hooked up at any time. Anything they want to learn we will make the time to help them learn.

Parents who say "I don't want my kid to be unpopular, so I will give them a smartphone" represent a mentality I feel is toxic to society IMO. Would you also give a child weed/tobacco/booze to share with their friends to make them cooler too?

If anything, helping a kid grow up with a more diverse and balanced introduction to technology will help them have a perspective few from their generation will have that in turn may offer them significant advantages. Will they eventually learn to make their own money and buy a phone anyway? Probably. They will however have learned to not be dependent on it.

I get by just fine without a phone and I have a rich social life, endless hobbies to keep my mind engaged, and I own and run a b2b company. "I could never give up my phone" is addiction speaking, and knowingly encouraging kids to share in your adult addictions is even worse.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#37

Post by WerBn »

I have no children, but I find this an interesting topic, because I have small cousins and friends with children. I find it quite disturbing to see the kids online, with their eyes on screen all the time they are not sleeping. It is concerning and it doesn't look healthy, both for their bodies/minds but also for their future. Don't tell me children learn something useful in TikTok, albeit some creative ideas, but in long term, most of it is crap. I honestly look at these children, and can't quite fathom what their future will be. Hopefully they will pop out/unplug off their drug, but... yeah.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#38

Post by lelanthran »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #31
lelanthran wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not? If you think that smartphone usage is harmful to your child, then you absolutely are justified in letting them be "that kid". It's a trade-off - is peer ostracisation worth the benefits from lack of tech? Most people, myself included, would say "No". > Being moderately socially constrained is actually a perfectly fine thing if the alternative is worse. It is not a moderate social constraint , it's a comple…

Don’t forget that those peers are also being damaged and may not make the best friends. From my observation children are increasingly dysfunctional.

> From my observation children are increasingly dysfunctional.

Hasn't every generation complained about this? We forget that we were children once too, and pushed at the boundaries as we matured into teens.

This is what children do.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#39

Post by WerBn »

aa-jv wrote: post #35

The answer to any technology-oriented problem is better communication . I had problems with my kids use of social media - until I involved myself in it with them, so that I could see the things they were learning and enjoying. And then, having established the reality of their world, I communicated with them about my concerns - the tracking, the groupthink, the dangers of online interactions with strangers. Most impor…

Yes. While it looks like there is no silver bullet for this, this looks like the better approach

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#40

Post by zo1 »

lynguist wrote: post #25

During the Facebook hearing, they said that its internal data shows that Facebook is most harmful for 14 year old girls. I believe that if you can somehow shield your daughter of that age from social media, she will be fine. I had a no display rule for our toddler but during my absence, her mother introduced her to the iPad, and now she watches YouTube on it whenever I’m not around. I know that the American Pediatric…

We took away Youtube Kids access after a few days. It's filled with so much very low quality "spam" content. E.g. random indians with thick accents singing to random recordings of them playing with toys and 5k iterations of that for every single kids song imaginable. And that's even excluding the potential of them finding content along the lines of "Elsa Gate".

Youtube-dl is your friend. Download (or pirate) quality content for them to consume offline. Disney streaming is also a no-go these days, not going to touch that with a 10-foot pole.

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