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Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

businessinsider.co.za

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Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#221

Post by Ekaros »

alephnan wrote: post #210
iratewizard wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China also doesn't share our value of craftsmanship. By letting them own a portion of our supply chain, they own a lot more than just the manual labor. They put us in situations where measuring temperature means buying an antique mercury thermometer, buying a $400 nist certified alcohol one, or getting Chinese made garbage that is not accurate within 2°.

> China also doesn't share our value of craftsmanship Obviously we share theirs since we’ve shown were interested in cutting costs at the expense of quality.

They could make quality long last products. But in general both as individuals and as society in general from companies to government value cost cutting and short term profit most. So ofc what gets made and sold is the cheapest possible product that is still passable at time of sale.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#222

Post by tasuki »

tempestn wrote: post #214
tasuki wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you're replying to mentioned "poor and desperate people", while you mention the same as "willing donors". Perhaps they're being taken advantage of: they could be in a very bad socio-economic situation through no fault of their own, have no other means to keep themselves fed, or be misled about the potential consequences?

They said, "I'm against all organ "donations". If it is your time to die, it's your time to die." I agree that paying for organs creates bad incentives. But I think organ donation after (non-capital punishment) death is a Good Thing, and it's hard for me to understand someone being against it.

Agreed! I mistakenly thought you were replying to the other part of the comment...

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#223

Post by paulcole »

andy_ppp wrote: post #218
paulcole wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any government putting any people to death is genuinely bad in my opinion.

That's not what we are discussing, we are discussing harvesting organs from death row inmates. I'm against overall due to it being, as you say, the wrong incentives.

OK, that is genuinely bad, too.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#224

Post by throw0101a »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #90
1024core wrote: post #30

I know of one person (my friend's mom) who literally got this procedure done: she needed a new kidney, and they waited till a death row convict came along who was a match. When she was matched, she got a phone call to come over to that particular city quickly, and she went there, and came back a few days later with a brand new pair of kidneys. It was almost like when you give your car in for repair, and when it's rea…

> this guy was going to die anyways, why not save someone's life in the process? because, like private "for profit" prisons, it incentivises bad things. Sci-fi short story on this topic, 1967: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jigsaw_Man

> because, like private "for profit" prisons, it incentivises bad things.

See also the movie Repo Men based on The Repossession Mambo by Eric Garcia:

> In 2025, advancements in medical technology have perfected bio-mechanical organs. A corporation known as The Union sells these expensive "artiforgs" on credit, and when customers are unable or unwilling to pay for their artiforgs The Union sends "repo men" to locate and forcibly repossess the organ - invariably resulting in the death of the owner. […]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repo_Men

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#226

Post by z3ncyberpunk »

kaba0 wrote: post #216
ComradePhil wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's the outrage and incentive debates when fully formed human babies are "aborted" and sent to be burned for biofuel? All done by for-profit companies all the way through. I definitely didn't see it here in HackerNews.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you even know what a 20 weeks fetus look like? And wtf, why would anyone burn some 30g thingy for biofuel? Especially that plenty of abortions are simply a heavier than usual blood flow, not a surgical operation of getting a baby out of someone, smh.

You do realize woke politicians are trying to make it legal to abort an infant after it was born right? For any reason..

At the same time they are sexualizing and grooming kids.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#227

Post by kaba0 »

z3ncyberpunk wrote: post #226
kaba0 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you even know what a 20 weeks fetus look like? And wtf, why would anyone burn some 30g thingy for biofuel? Especially that plenty of abortions are simply a heavier than usual blood flow, not a surgical operation of getting a baby out of someone, smh.

You do realize woke politicians are trying to make it legal to abort an infant after it was born right? For any reason.. At the same time they are sexualizing and grooming kids.

I would like to see a source on any of that. Something that is not 4chan-level…

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#228

Post by chrischen »

vmception wrote: post #170
chrischen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t really have to get their individual thoughts. At the end of the day look at their satisfaction levels. Look at the number of Chinese exchange students returning home vs staying abroad. And look at the economy. If it is doing well, chances are most people will be Ok with their government. Polling people for their thoughts is usually unreliable anyways because people can say anything: it costs nothing. It’s t…

> Look at the number of Chinese exchange students returning home vs staying abroad. That tells you basically nothing. Some wealthy Chinese have a designated family member move to hedge their wealth preservation bets while galavanting around in a western country. I don't think trends in that metric reveal anything except how many are willing to play that game.

I think a good litmus test for if something is a good argument is to see if it is something possible to disprove by proving the inverse.

If you were to take this argument: It is nearly impossible to get an honest current thought from a Chinese citizen about that... and therefore Chinese must not served/satisfied by their government.

So the inverse of that would be "it is possible to get an honest current thought from a Chinese citizen." So since that is not something I can prove or disprove your claim tells basically nothing as well. This is because even an actual Chinese person telling you their honest thought cannot prove to you, by your standards, to have given you their honest opinion because you make hand wavy arguments that their true opinions are being suppressed already.

You've already disqualified any potential rebuttal because saying "that tells you nothing" can be literally applied to any data or stats thrown at you... because your whole argument is that the data/stats/opinions of Chinese people cannot be trusted.

> Some wealthy Chinese have a designated family member move to hedge their wealth preservation bets while galavanting around in a western country. I don't think trends in that metric reveal anything except how many are willing to play that game.

You can literally apply this as a counter argument to anything. I could claim that Americans' satisfaction with their lives is just a select few that you happened to talk to that are rich and galavanting around. The only way to counter this would be to catalogue every single person and of course also audit that every person was accounted for because any survey covering people can be discredited by saying that it didn't count everybody or that answers were given under duress.

The reality is that not even 20 years ago most Chinese who left did not have plans of returning, but given improving conditions the rate of repatriation is increasing. After the revolution people tried to escape, but that's not the case anymore. Rather than automatically discrediting any Chinese or stats that go against your pre-determined narrative, which is not something people can argue against, present evidence that can actually be proved/disproved.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#229

Post by lenkite »

derefr wrote: post #174
Gareth321 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Historians would be making the classic correlation|causation fallacy. Your French example is apt because China has created a bourgeoisie class which is also the effective monarchy. Historians might say that China has learned from history and ensured that their powerful class cannot be usurped.…

> China has created a bourgeoisie class which is also the effective monarchy I don’t think you understand the functional meanings of these terms. People like the modern Russian “oligarchs” or their Chinese equivalents are, in function, nobility , whether they are granted any formal titles or not. You’re a noble in function if 1. you helped the current regime gain power; 2. you can use your ongoing necessity to the re…

"To be in the borgeoisie, on the other hand, is to be a capitalist — even a magnate — but to not have any individual semi-sovereign autonomous power over the state"

Just need to become a donor and provide campaign contributions. You get semi-sovereign autonomous power pretty soon.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#230

Post by davidjytang »

qiskit wrote: post #69
737min wrote: post #2

Notable that this is a professional medical association saying this based on a stufy, not a journalist or blogger.

Just as notable is that china passed laws to stop this practice in 2015 as the article noted. The same year taiwan stopped the practice of taking organs from prisoners. Yet the propaganda is rather one sided. I wonder. I'm against all organ "donations". If it is your time to die, it's your time to die. Also, the biggest issue in organ donation isn't china or taiwan supposedly harvesting a few dozen prisoners' organs.…

A huge difference between Taiwan and China is that Taiwan does it voluntarily.

By the way, prisoners in Taiwan can still voluntarily donate their organs to their close relatives.

Trying to mix Taiwan and China together is quite a word salad.

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