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Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

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Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#121

Post by spookthesunset »

sudosysgen wrote: post #50
GekkePrutser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a scenario where we have to work from home a couple of times a year for a few days due to a mild infection really such a nightmare? Considering the constant lockdowns we'll need to prevent it, that sounds a lot worse tbh. Of course it's possible a dangerous strain will emerge but I think it's worth the risk.

There is a lot more that can be done besides lockdowns - we can have actually useful contact tracing and testing. There are tons of measures that can be implemented to reduce transmission. We're giving up on all of that. Besides, viral infections are very damaging to the human body. An infection severe enough to knock you out for multiple days multiple times a year, on top of all the other disease we have, each time…

I absolutely love the goalposts for some people seem to have shifted from “this ends when we have a vaccine” all the way to “this ends when we have a newer, better vaccine”.

When will people finally accept this is a battle that cannot be won. Humans cannot stop a contagious respiratory virus any better than they can stop a hurricane, tornado or earthquake.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#122

Post by spookthesunset »

tyng wrote: post #118
spookthesunset wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm the parent I wouldn't want my kids to get COVID The risks of missing education, physical activity and socialization are far greater for children than Covid. We have two years of data to show this.

It's not a permanent lockdown... just for a few weeks (so far)

Just Two Weeks!!

It requires a lot of privilege and disconnect from the average person to support a lockdown two years into this.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#124

Post by tyng »

tyng wrote: post #118
spookthesunset wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm the parent I wouldn't want my kids to get COVID The risks of missing education, physical activity and socialization are far greater for children than Covid. We have two years of data to show this.

It's not a permanent lockdown... just for a few weeks (so far)

Perhaps after two months I will think differently :D

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#125

Post by 3qz »

tyng wrote: post #123
3qz wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is helpful. He’s showing signs of learned helplessness and needs to wake up.

I appreciate the thought, life is a matter of choices

What would happen if you worked 8 hours a day?

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#126

Post by colechristensen »

NathanKP wrote: post #106
colechristensen wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way "out" of COVID is that everyone gets exposed regularly enough that their immunity is high enough to make the average case rather mild. You could lockdown and try to force vaccines for a century and not get rid of it. The vaccines don't work well enough to extinct the virus, and the virus is too contagious and has too long an incubation time to make lockdowns work (and new variants seem to be evolving to…

Personally I'd rather live with periodic dystopian lockdowns like China than in a society where the population gradually gets weaker and weaker from long term heart, lung, and brain damage from Covid. ( https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i... ) Imagine each wave of new Covid variant leaving a percentage of the population a little less strong, with a little more brain fog... that's a way more f…

There is an assumption here that long-term mostly mild symptoms are unique to COVID instead of prevalent. There is an assumption here that such things are cumulative and will threaten everybody.

The reality seems to be much more like long term disease side effects are relatively common, extremely difficult to diagnose, and just starting to be understood.

For example there have been recent publications indicating the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV, often called "mono") is a cause or potentiator of multiple sclerosis.

We also have "chronic fatigue syndrome" and "fibromyalgia" which are essentially just clusters of symptoms with no known definitive cause which are quite possibly "Long-" among others.

You're also neglecting the long term psychological and other effects of lockdowns.

It is not clear that the benefits of forced lockdowns or forced vaccinations beat the alternatives or that such things are justifiable in a free society... and if you want to live in a dystopian society that matches your morality I suggest you move to one.

As for me the cost/benefit of lockdowns has become clear to me and I'll vote with my feet if faced with another one.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#127

Post by reissbaker »

curmudgeon22 wrote: post #79
reissbaker wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? A three-dose regimen of Pfizer or Moderna pitted against Omicron is 75% effective against infection and 88% effective against severe disease: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/by-the-numbers-covid-... Sinovac wasn't great against the original strain, but against Omicron, Sinovac is basically worthless. A two-dose regimen provides literally no benefit, and three doses is only equivalen…

These are rates per 100,000 for vaccinated, boosted and unvaccinated from Ontario (population 14 million). I don't see much benefit against infection to those with 2 or 3 mRNA doses. The most recent datapoints (7 day average): - Not fully vaccinated: 14.86 cases per 100,000 people - Fully vaccinated: 17.39 cases per 100,000 people - Vaccinated with booster: 26.89 cases per 100,000 people https://covid-19.ontario.ca/d…

7-day average isn't particularly worthwhile for Omicron, which peaked months ago. Most people who were going to get it already got it.

Ontario changed the way it reports COVID data in March, and thus finding prior data is annoying on my phone for Ontario specifically. But pretty much every other data source I've looked at agrees: during the Omicron peak, the vast, vast majority of cases per 100k were in the unvaccinated.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#128

Post by jacquesm »

sudosysgen wrote: post #37
_abox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, I got covid 2 weeks after getting my booster (3rd mRNA dose). At a point where protection should have been optimal. However it only gave me slight sniffles for 2 days. The vaccine made me more sick :) so IMO the vaccine did its job. I agree with rolling the dice on this. We can't keep locking thingals down forever and masks only delay an eventual infection anyway. The anti covid measures do their own damage on…

Ah, what I'm talking about is something else - people are being infected through the vaccine, and get a second breakthrough infection within a month of the first one. I don't know how widespread it is. Reinfections are generally milder than the first infection, but it's not the case every time. If we let the virus run through like wildfire and accumulate mutation after mutation as it runs through billions of hosts ev…

> people are being infected through the vaccine

Worth noting the difference between Sinovac and other vaccines: Sinovac is a deactivated virus, whereas almost all of the others do not contain any virus. So nobody is 'infected through the vaccine'.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#129

Post by somewhereoutth »

spookthesunset wrote: post #119
somewhereoutth wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean until everyone gets it again, and again (and again). We don't know the long terms effects of even a single infection, let alone the repeated infections we're allowing ourselves to be exposed to.

Probably a similar risk profile to that of every other common respiratory virus…

Like measles? Smallpox? They are respiratory viruses too
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