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Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

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Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#101

Post by freyr »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #25
robonerd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supposing there were a new variant, or some new illness entirely, recent history suggests the CCP would sooner try to suppress it themselves than admit it publicly. So... maybe.

Don't forget that China still tries for a zero covid strategy even with variants that are unlikely to overload the health system like Omicron. So whether it's Omicron or a new variant, their response would be the same. Sooner or later they'll have to open up like we did (and things are going just fine). But I think it's a PR issue, they've been preaching the zero covid so long.. They care a lot about their reputation…

It’s been reported that Omicron was relatively mild in the West because so many people are vaccinated or have had previous exposure.

In a place like Hong Kong, where relatively few people were vaccinated or previously infected, Omicron was much deadlier.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/04/09/asias-ou...

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#102

Post by voisin »

tyng wrote: post #85

I'm in the lockdown in Shanghai, feel free to ask me any questions. Things you read on the internet is mostly true (but may be exaggerated): Life: Yes we can only buy food through WeChat groups to organise wholesale deliveries (2000 eggs, 200 cabbages minimum order) on hiked prices, but it's easier than you might think; No one has died from starvation (yet), but there had been a few cases of death due to not getting…

A lot of your commentary is about lockdown not being too bad, but what are your thoughts on the rationale for the lockdown when Omicron is relatively less dangerous? Do the people in your social network feel the costs are worth it?

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#104

Post by colechristensen »

threatofrain wrote: post #82
colechristensen wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way "out" of COVID is that everyone gets exposed regularly enough that their immunity is high enough to make the average case rather mild. You could lockdown and try to force vaccines for a century and not get rid of it. The vaccines don't work well enough to extinct the virus, and the virus is too contagious and has too long an incubation time to make lockdowns work (and new variants seem to be evolving to…

China isn't dealing with the same situation because Sinovac isn't as good, they haven't purchased a large stockpile of reputable western vaccines, and so the value proposition of forcing everyone to vaccinate isn't as strong.

>reputable western vaccines

Many vaccines were developed, the less effective ones aren't really a matter of "reputation" but something more like luck. Many things were tried, some worked better than others. There was no guarantee that never-before-approved mRNA-type vaccines were going to work, be safe enough to use, and work better than other vaccines, but it did turn out that way. That was not a result of a priori superiority or reputation, but an experimental technique happening to work out well.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#105

Post by tyng »

itronitron wrote: post #91
tyng wrote: post #85

I'm in the lockdown in Shanghai, feel free to ask me any questions. Things you read on the internet is mostly true (but may be exaggerated): Life: Yes we can only buy food through WeChat groups to organise wholesale deliveries (2000 eggs, 200 cabbages minimum order) on hiked prices, but it's easier than you might think; No one has died from starvation (yet), but there had been a few cases of death due to not getting…

What would you estimate to be the Covid vaccination rates in Shanghai? In many European and American cities the consensus of many people seems to be that Covid 'is over', likely due to high vaccination rates and those that have recovered.

I don't have the big picture data but all the people I know (locals and expats) have been vaccinated. China and the Western world are taking different approaches to COVID, I don't believe in anything said from either side, there is simply not enough scientific and trustworthy data, only time will tell which approach is better.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#106

Post by NathanKP »

colechristensen wrote: post #63
miked85 wrote: post #14

I haven't seen yet why China is going into lockdown again. Is there a new variant?

The only way "out" of COVID is that everyone gets exposed regularly enough that their immunity is high enough to make the average case rather mild. You could lockdown and try to force vaccines for a century and not get rid of it. The vaccines don't work well enough to extinct the virus, and the virus is too contagious and has too long an incubation time to make lockdowns work (and new variants seem to be evolving to…

Personally I'd rather live with periodic dystopian lockdowns like China than in a society where the population gradually gets weaker and weaker from long term heart, lung, and brain damage from Covid. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...)

Imagine each wave of new Covid variant leaving a percentage of the population a little less strong, with a little more brain fog... that's a way more frightening gradual descent than the inconvenience of a periodic total lockdown.

I don't think perfection is possible, but I also don't think that living with regular exposure is going to work out very well for us. The biggest thing I fear is that we end up with a weakened and lower IQ population while countries like China that do their best to limit exposure will stay stronger overall because they are willing to work with a periodic lockdown. Lockdown supply chain problems can be solved a lot more easily than widespread heart, lung, and brain damage.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#107

Post by itronitron »

tremon wrote: post #97
itronitron wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you estimate to be the Covid vaccination rates in Shanghai? In many European and American cities the consensus of many people seems to be that Covid 'is over', likely due to high vaccination rates and those that have recovered.

the consensus of many people seems to be that Covid 'is over' Personally, I'll reserve my judgement on that until we're past the normal autumn flu/cold wave. Cases declined last year in the summer too.

I agree. Anecdotally, a friend of mine's workplace which canceled WFH a few months ago has had many people out sick with Covid over the past three weeks (more than the entire previous year), but luckily none have them have needed to be hospitalized.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#108

Post by 3qz »

revscat wrote: post #100
3qz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> life isn't that miserable > I'm still working 12 hour days online > we can only buy food through WeChat This sounds horrible. You don’t have to live like this you know.

This is unhelpful.

Yes it is helpful. He’s showing signs of learned helplessness and needs to wake up.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#109

Post by 3qz »

tyng wrote: post #95
3qz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> life isn't that miserable > I'm still working 12 hour days online > we can only buy food through WeChat This sounds horrible. You don’t have to live like this you know.

I work 12 hour days no matter where I am :D

I’m sorry

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#110

Post by jseban »

itstheccp wrote: post #23
miked85 wrote: post #14

I haven't seen yet why China is going into lockdown again. Is there a new variant?

No, they're locking down over Omicron, which is a cold that none of the vaccines prevent. That's what authoritarian countries do, they repeal the freedoms of their subjects arbitrarily. This is why it's absolutely insane that the free world followed the Chinese playbook at the beginning of the pandemic, even for a minute. The CCP wants zero COVID and if they need to have another Great Leap Forward to get it, well, no…

> This is why it's absolutely insane that the free world followed the Chinese playbook at the beginning of the pandemic, even for a minute.

A stark reminder that Germany was also a communist dictatorship until only 30 years ago, and that Angela Merkel suddenly turned to authoritarian leadership and was impressed with China's strategy is not really that surprising considering that she grew up in and was indoctrinated in a communist dictatorship herself.

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