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The next Google

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Re: The next Google

#551

Post by dx034 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #43
sanxiyn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi is "users pay". Yes, average users won't pay, but I don't see how that matters to me as a Kagi user.

A paid search engine? Bold. I'd pay if it could do anything close to what the old google code search could do. I miss it every day.

The cost per search query is incredibly small. You could probably have I believe products can work that way, offer premium service and features for the very few that need it and a basic service to anyone else. In the end, the free tier is cheaper than what you'd have to spend on marketing otherwise.

Re: The next Google

#552

Post by TheLegace »

richardsocher wrote: post #313
hans1729 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it only gets away with it because it owns the web browser through Chrome, Android and its Apple deal for Safari. From someone who tried the switch to duckduckgo and uses ddg as the default engine: I can't remember the last query I typed without adding "!g". Google doesn't get my queries because the service is shoved down my throat, it gets them because the alternatives I tried are worse wrt the total scope of my que…

Would love your feedback on https://you.com - actually has most capabilities that G has and also has the same bangs as DDG.

Just tried to search "t-sne" was pleasantly surprised the first result [1] was what I found on DDG and a good result. Compared to Google which couldn't even find it on the first page. Most of Google's result are not exactly useful, and the only useful article is not my favorite in terms of quality. Order being.

1. Wiki article 2. Github repo 3. API documentation 4. Introduction with Python Code(Not my fav quality article) 5. Guide in R 6. Research article

I can't quantify what is better. But Google didn't give me what I wanted but DDG and you.com did. So congrats. My only issue is seeing Medium articles above the web results. While Medium might have the answer in this scenario the top web result was correct but de-prioritized which was incorrect from my prespective.

UI is nice and fast, different too. Not sure if I love yet, but will keep trying. Thanks for the link. [1] https://towardsdatascience.com/t-sne-clearly-explained-d84c5...

Re: The next Google

#553

Post by codalan »

mrkramer wrote: post #535
mostlysimilar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a simple box where you put a question in and it gives you answers Google is very good at this, but this is exactly what I _don't_ want in the "Next Google". I want a _search engine_ for the web, not an answers engine that tries to know what I want better than I do. Search the web. Give me links to websites. This seems obvious to me, but everyone is trying to be like Google. I'm convinced the death of the web and in…

>I'm convinced the death of the web and independent forum communities is largely the fault of Google's lousy search results no longer actually returning real web results. You are wrong; Open Web died or almost died because of walled gardens like Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Billions of people who hang out on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter would hang out instead on Open Web e.g. websites, blogs, forums etc. if wa…

Reddit, too.

I kind of miss forums being the place where most discussion took place.

Re: The next Google

#554

Post by codalan »

enoch2090 wrote: post #496

I’ve tried with Neeva, and to be honest, even put aside the potential privacy problems, it just doesn’t work. The quality of search results is notably poorer than Google. I used it for a dozen of PyTorch & Numpy related queries, and a dozen more on convex optimization maths. I often find that it can’t find the right answer for me. It’s really a pity because I quite like it’s feature to search information from connect…

It was pretty good a few months ago, but I've noticed more and more SEO spam in the results.

They also started using dark patterns in the UI. For instance, some search results will bring up an obnoxious popup asking to enable location services. It blocks off a good chunk of the visible screen

This is on a desktop machine without GPS. And it sometimes pops up for search terms that wouldn't have a location associated with it.

And you can't disable it.

I'll probably take a look at Kagi when I get an invite.

Re: The next Google

#555

Post by unethical_ban »

wmeredith wrote: post #521
unethical_ban wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User manuals for stereo systems, specs for old hardware. Anything that can be generically referenced, maybe a bit harder to find. Someone can throw up a webpage that SEO's on "manual" or "user guide" and when I type in "Sony DTH-345 user guide" I'll see results like "manualsonline.xyz" that are clearly bogus. I can't lab it up now, but that is the gist. And DDG has it while Google rarely has the same level of it.

Isn't DDG just Bing's index with privacy (and some other QoL) features?

That's my understanding. And while I appreciate that Bing is the "baseline", I would be interested in what it would take for them to do additional cleanup on results. Blacklisting domains should be a no-brainer. "Safe search" for suspicious sites, not adult theme.

Re: The next Google

#556

Post by greyhair »

blunte wrote: post #501
friendzis wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you want the unwashed masses in your specialist forums? Having the choice between "unwashed masses" and "curated to suit political agenda" I would firmly choose the former. Before I get attacked on political agenda angle, please understand that it takes trained professional actively trying to remain objective to have impartial moderation. Many professional discussion moderators fail here and you just cannot expe…

> unwashed masses The unwashed masses are often filthy and malicious (on the internet). Moderation, of the governance and oversight meaning, is unforunately very necessary to keeping any pool from becoming a cesspit. By some combination of technical, volunteer, and participant effort (membership fee, or service requirement), areas can be kept decent. Without this, decent and would-be participants are run off by spam,…

Hence what happened to Usenet. I was active on comp.lang.c comp.lang.c.moderated comp.sys.3b1 comp.sys.3b2 back in the mid 1990s, by 1998, it had become a total hot mess. The moderated groups imploded, or shutdown, when the moderators just gave up. In particular, comp.lang.c.moderated was a fountain of knowledge on C language implementation specifics, then a few really pedantic asshats joined, and their MO was purely slandering and shouting. They had agendas, and they had no interest in sharing knowledge. I think a couple of them thought they could affect the evolution of the language, from outside ANSI, to suit their own personal opinions. Nasty little dictators. I completely dropped off usenet around 1998. In retrospect, I hung on for to long, hoping for a return to rational behavior.

Re: The next Google

#557

Post by greyhair »

user3939382 wrote: post #332
baxtr wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. People don't realize that the early web was elitist. Now, the entire population is online. And, as you said, most people simply don't care about the stuff we care about. That's also why "Google's search results are soo bad." They're not. For the bulk of Google's visitors, they're good enough.

> For the bulk of Google's visitors, they're good enough I'm not sure that's true. Just to pick an example, basically any type of product search now leads to auto-generated spam/borderline-spam websites that scrape reviews from Amazon, which are themselves often fraudulent. I guess you could say that's "good enough" but only in the sense that someone being scammed at some point consents to something that makes them a…

Worse than that are the SEO results that don't give you what you want at all.

For products, one of the worst offenders is Target. Yes, Target. They show up near the top of about 60% of my searches, including for things they simply do not carry. But hey, they carry a similar product that you might be interested in! (not)

SEO results make Google money, but they also make the results suck.

Re: The next Google

#558

Post by flawn »

ziml77 wrote: post #442
user3939382 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the bulk of Google's visitors, they're good enough I'm not sure that's true. Just to pick an example, basically any type of product search now leads to auto-generated spam/borderline-spam websites that scrape reviews from Amazon, which are themselves often fraudulent. I guess you could say that's "good enough" but only in the sense that someone being scammed at some point consents to something that makes them a…

I've been using Kagi search and I find the same stuff there. I can block them from my personal results as I encounter the garbage, but it's there by default. And the people trying to get their garbage spam sites to rank high are wise to the common tricks people use to attempt to get better results. Just today I accidentally clicked on a result that from the title looked like it would lead me to reddit. I should have…

Is it powered by Google? I'd rather use an alternative which has the same quality of results as Google's engine.

Re: The next Google

#560

Post by throwaway2037 »

pers0n wrote: post #525
throwaway2037 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to Slashdot? Around 2000, I was a regular reader. Then, I fell away, but I cannot remember why.

All the arguments were the same over and over. I remember reading the same comments that would come up all the time, the discussion got old. Plus the topics were very Linux, DRM focused. Digg had newer more interesting tech topics

This is a great reply. Real question: Why hasn't the same happened to HN? To be fair, there are some arguments that play out over and over again: SF crime & homelessness, Bay Area housing, US taxes, central banks "printing money", office vs work-from-home, feeling forced to adopt liberal social views / stances at a tech company (Black Lives Matter, LGBTIQ+), etc.

And somehow, there is still enough good, new content to keep the conversations fresh. Some of the best are when someone shares a personal story, then there are tens or hundreds of follow-up posts -- generally supportive or inquisitive.

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