An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown • Hacker News Board

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#411

Post by Markoff » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #112

A high school friend of ours is apartment-jailed in Shanghai right now. She is a young mom, and all the moms in the apartment are all out of everything required to care for babies. Trying to share strategies on how to use any kitchen ingredients to make formula or rash ointments… I wonder if this will actually have any political blowback in the coming years, or if this only strengthens the ccp.

You don't need baby formula, it's sad how MANY Chinese fall for baby formula propaganda banned in west with formula samples given to new mothers in Chinese hospitals. Only 1-5% of mothers are unable to breastfeed, the most of the formula buyers just believe fairy tales and feed their kids unhealthy formula and then they complain about being unable to get formula.

Also you dont really need much for baby besides breastmilk, you can make fabric diapers as in old times (yes, it's inconvenient, we went easier way) and that's about it, since baby just need breastmilk, clean clothes and diaper, when older you are fine with boiled smashed vegetables, so these complaints really feel but completely clueless (lazy) mother and only justified complaint is rash ointments which can be really issue and ain't that easy to deal with at home.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#412

Post by Laforet » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

csee wrote: post #366

Laforet wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In a country with complete control over the information ecosystem, how can it be that so many old people don't want to take the vaccine? Because nobody wanted to be held responsible for any adverse reactions to the vaccine. The sordid state of medical liability culture and vaccine hesitancy in China would take too long to explain here so let's just say that the distrust runs pretty deep, and the government is unders…

So this sounds plausible, but since Xi is an autocrat, and since they can just bury/censor a small handful of adverse outcomes, why wouldn't Xi want to ram this through and override the risk aversion of the medics on the ground?

Just because something could be done, does not imply that it would be done. I can't speak for the decision makers, but it's clear that they have decided that it wasn't worth it. And that was probably the right call until Omicron.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#413

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #2

The rest of the world seems to have gone all-in with vaccines and are now moving away from lockdowns. Why are China sticking to the lockdown route?

The failure of restrictions to meaningfully contain Covid that became obvious in Western countries ages ago is only now beginning to happen in China.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#414

Post by jimmydorry » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #268

geraldyo wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they wouldn't be able to keep you inside a house?

Yes, they could, but could they keep everyone in a city of millions in their houses though?

They would ring fence the village / suburb.

I don't see a major difference between nothing entering or leaving an apartment compared to entering or leaving the village / suburb.

Both will run out of food in a similar time span.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#415

Post by bamboozled » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

What actually is going on in China, is there some type of economic meltdown in progress ? Like, we can say it's because of covid, but something seems a miss to me.

> This is the biggest, richest, most international city of China and people are starving, without medicine, and without freedom.

What?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#416

Post by mstaoru » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

Monotoko wrote: post #383

starkd wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are people with means able to bribe the "baoan" ? I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of black market economy were developing.

Issue is, bribe them for what? They don't really have any means to get food either and if they were to look the other way while you slipped out of the community you'd find every shop closed. They don't take monetary bribes, but favours, cigarettes etc

Another thing is that the Chinese society is still very much likes to "report" things. A few days ago somebody in my community went outside to throw trash, no less than 5 people in the Wechat group posted pictures asking "why N is outside?"

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#417

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

somewhereoutth wrote: post #178

smcl wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation in Shanghai sounds pretty far from an ideal society, it sounds downright horrifying

Certainly it is awful in Shanghai right now, but it will be for a limited time period, and the benefits (of zero Covid) will out weigh this cost of this investment in public health.

People like you truly can’t be reasoned with. Your obsession with Covid as being worse than any possible mitigation strategy is borderline religious.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#418

Post by Retric » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #340

Retric wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason it’s a logical fallacy to assume size makes a real difference is the work scales with population, but the capacity to solve problems also scales with population. That’s a a formal fallacy in that the argument doesn’t follow from the premise. In general economies of scale make things easier as you start dealing with ever larger groups.

> the capacity to solve problems also scales with population Missing a potential key factor is not a logical fallacy. You can be perfectly logical operating from the wrong set of underlying assumptions and be completely wrong. I'd say that your statement sounds intuitive but is not necessarily correct. As a cell's size increases, its surface area and volume both increase, but its surface area increases by the square…

It’s not missing a factor that was an issue, but jumping from size to difficulty without justification.

“All cats are mammals therefore all cats are blue.” The conclusion being false isn’t a logical fallacy. However because the conclusion isn’t supported by the argument it is a fallacy.

It common to see this kind of fallacy for example: “Smart people learn things faster, therefore all experts are smart.” Yes, you just said two things that seem related, but that doesn’t mean the first statement implies the second.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#419

Post by rapind » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

mstaoru wrote: post #405

rapind wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will strongly reconsider staying here. It’s fascinating to me how tolerant some people are. After reading your comment (very informative thanks!), I would be well past “considering”. I’d be gone (with family in toe) as soon as humanly possible.

There are other factors at play. For one, I have a Chinese wife who has elderly parents (not in Shanghai), for now they fare well, but we might need to look after them sooner or later. Another factor is that I have a few years contract in a startup I care much about, sure we could do remote, but this would be a blow to them. I will try to solve these and see if we can move to Taiwan or somewhere else relatively close…

I wish you the best my friend. Hopefully you can work out the logistics, because wow… it sounds horrible.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#420

Post by robonerd » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 3:43 PM UTC

kkfx wrote: post #343

tangsanqian wrote: post #234

As a Chinese, I can say that the situation is worse than it in the article. My brother is a student who lives in a flat and has not eaten for two days and no one has brought basic substances. He can't leave the flat, he turns to his tutor but his tutor is also forced to stay at home (eating instant noodles every day). We are worried about him but there is nothing we can do, if we criticise the government on chinese T…

There are two kind of issue there: - have no "buffer", meaning living in houses where you can't store food in quantity sufficient for a certain, not little, period of time, in some countries there are even official recommendations like Swiss who recommend one week of food and three days of water (I think, not sure about exact data); - live in a not-united population that can arise effectively, no government, no power…

> no power can stop an angry population

The longer you wait, the hungrier you get. The hungrier you get, the weaker you are. Best for the people of Shanghai if they start rioting now than a week from now, when it may be too late.