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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

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Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#171

Post by Sol- »

Barrin92 wrote: post #145

Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…

China may arguably have done a better job at the collective response to the virus than the west at the start of the pandemic (though with measures that probably wouldn't been seen as acceptable in liberal countries). So there they might have had reason to brag that their authoritarian system works "better", for some definition of better.

But now their zero covid policy seem to be largely symbolic and to save face - you (probably?) can't lock down Omicron. Should have spent the time they won with their good initial response to increase immunity levels in the population.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#172

Post by smcl »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #150
philliphaydon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it has a zero covid policy. It is trying to project an image of itself as being this ideal society where covid isn’t running wild while america is out of control. The lockdown they are having is horrible tho. My coworker is based there and what I’ve heard from her is scary. She wants to move out of China when she can.

I mean, assuming they can contain it in Shanghai, then China really is an ideal society where Covid isn't running wild. We are yet to see the full burden of disease and disability from (repeated) Covid infections - it may be very serious.

This situation in Shanghai sounds pretty far from an ideal society, it sounds downright horrifying

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#173

Post by mike_h »

kyrra wrote: post #163
Barrin92 wrote: post #145

Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…

China also likely lies about their numbers so it's not likely we'd know the real death count. According to their stats, they had covid 4 covid deaths in all of 2021. This puts them at the number 2 best results spot. The issue here being that all the top stats spots for least deaths are from island countries, which china is not.

China is on Earth, not in some other solar system. If their excess deaths per capita were a fraction of the numbers in the West, there would be no way to hide it.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#174

Post by fivea »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #119
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #19

> This is the biggest, richest, most international city of China and people are starving, without medicine, and without freedom. Ouch. Seems like a really bad situation.

The article provides no direct evidence of people starving, only that 'We cannot freely choose our recipes'. There is also a picture of 3 fresh fish!

> The article provides no direct evidence of people starving, only that 'We cannot freely choose our recipes'.

What? The article clearly describes how people in Shanghai are barred from accessing the supplies they ordered because their buildings have been literally locked up and there is no way to get their orders past the outside gate.

From the article:

> Sometimes one of the people in the locked building yells to the dabai or anyone who passes, to hand over the vegetables she has ordered and who are now perishing at the locked gate of their building. But people don’t have the key and the ones who do may not necessarily care.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#175

Post by adventured »

Barrin92 wrote: post #145

Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…

> The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths

We have highly effective vaccines available globally. Even in the twisted American healthcare system I can walk into any CVS or Walgreens and get a free mRNA vaccine, 47 times over, anytime I want to.

There is no good argument in favor of China's lock-down policies in the present, post vaccine availability. Unless of course their vaccines are particularly mediocre at preventing death and or serious disease, in which case they should be placing a multi-billion dose order with Pfizer and Moderna.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#176

Post by 88840-8855 »

csee wrote: post #34
drumhead wrote: post #7

They dont seem to be able to organise a lockdown properly do they?

A hard lockdown being needed at this late stage in the pandemic signals poor decision making more than anything. Why aren't their elderly widely vaccinated, and why are they still relying on their significantly worse domestically made vaccine?

They are not vaccinated because they did not want.

i am wondering about your question.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#177

Post by mike_h »

gitfan86 wrote: post #170
Barrin92 wrote: post #145

Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…

The emotional response of the people living in China is very relevant to the effectiveness of the collectivist policies. If they continue down the path of CovidZero in the face of evidence that it is not going to work and will only cause economic and emotional pain to the population, it highlights one of the major downsides to collectivist policies. They cannot adapt because they have a culture that looks down on any…

Where is the evidence that it didn’t work?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#178

Post by somewhereoutth »

smcl wrote: post #172
somewhereoutth wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, assuming they can contain it in Shanghai, then China really is an ideal society where Covid isn't running wild. We are yet to see the full burden of disease and disability from (repeated) Covid infections - it may be very serious.

This situation in Shanghai sounds pretty far from an ideal society, it sounds downright horrifying

Certainly it is awful in Shanghai right now, but it will be for a limited time period, and the benefits (of zero Covid) will out weigh this cost of this investment in public health.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#179

Post by dmarchand90 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #145

Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…

I really don't understand why a country where (on average, from Google) every citizen has received 2+ vaccinations there should still be such a strict policy

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#180

Post by jallen_dot_dev »

urthor wrote: post #101
0des wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few jumped in 9/11? Are you kidding me? I personally saw many with my own eyes.

As a percentage it wasn't high. Dozens I think? Maybe 100 jumpers out of 3000 deaths? In the worst situation imaginable. I call that an endorsement for humanity's innate desire to grasp at life.

Keep in mind many 9/11 victims wouldn't have been able to get to a window or break it out. And many would have succumbed to the smoke and not had the chance. Also, one isn't going to commit suicide if they think they are still going to be rescued by the firefighters they knew were on their way. Contrast that with a month of seemingly irrational lockdown with no end in sight because 0-covid is futile.

I don't even understand the point you're trying to help defend. You know a story about suicide must be fake news because suicide isn't a thing that happens? Really?

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