I’m in Shanghai too. It’s a city of 25+ million people: there will be some bad stories. But overall it is running remarkably and the vast majority of people aren’t thinking about how oppressed they are by having to eat fish. They’re helping each other and encouraging each other, because they know the cost of not doing this is millions of lives.
An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
161–170 of 559 posts
Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#162Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#163Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…
China also likely lies about their numbers so it's not likely we'd know the real death count. According to their stats, they had covid 4 covid deaths in all of 2021. This puts them at the number 2 best results spot.
The issue here being that all the top stats spots for least deaths are from island countries, which china is not.
Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#164I am in China too. In Shenzhen. I think the author is very unkind to the Bao An. I am 100% sure they would treat me the same if there is a similar lockdown here, but I imagine they are under a lot of pressure. My hearts go out to them though. I have a dog here in China, and I am very afraid of what will happen to her if an outbreak like this hits my area. And how can you even have a dog if you can't leave a building…
> I am 100% sure they would treat me the same if there is a similar lockdown here
I wish you never get to find this out, because I firmly believe you're wrong.
Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#165Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article provides no direct evidence of people starving, only that 'We cannot freely choose our recipes'. There is also a picture of 3 fresh fish!
Yes the author cannot freely choose their recipes and was able to buy three fish: > a good ‘catch’ for what we can still buy on delivery apps But they're able to work from home, likely wealthy and well resourced. They also mention this: > we’re lucky — many people (because of the nature of their job) cannot and see their bank account go to zero, or their own business go bankrupt If you can't work, earn money and (the…
Again, the author conjectures that people may starve, but provides no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that people are starving.
Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe they know something we don’t. Edit: there’s not a lot being talked about in terms of multiple infections over time. It’s not that the MRNA vaccines are effective it’s that the West pivoted to an entirely different public health policy.
Australia and New Zealand tried lockdowns against Delta. They didn't work until vaccination rates got high enough. Then omicron came and not even 90% vax rates were enough to stop the spread. So the vaccines without lockdowns is more a pragmatic move because lockdowns stopped working. Besides, the vaccines work, there just isn't the same need to have lockdowns anymore. AU and NZ lockdowns were less ugly than this Sha…
I think we need to stop calling MRNA solutions vaccines because they are gene therapies. You need regular administration for them to be effective on a public health level which is not logistically feasible as we found out. They know this but they’re playing along as a matter of publicity and politics. We got incredibly lucky with Omicron.
Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#168SH miscalculated/mananged trying to live with covid in the first place. Jilin (5m) and Shengyang (9m) both coming out of lockdown after month - seems like new stealth strain is still broadlycontainable. Whether cost is worth it medium term is another question. Probably time to force elders to vaccinate and then try to live with covid again. From what I read they're cutting off SH by shutting regional HWs and moving to reopenning by districts that manage to zero tests. As for logistics issues with delivery, inevitable at this scale, but should be within state capacity to sort out. In terms of eating bitter, skipping a few meals is mild relative to even recent PRC history.
Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
The imcumbent cabinet and politburo are going out of term later this year and a new list of names needs to be appointed and rubber stamped by the upcoming 20th CCP National Congress. The government essentially operate in caretaker mode for several months before the congress and any major policy reversal would be taboo as it could disrupt the political horse trading happening in the background. This is just not the ti…
Why can't they just clandestinely ramp up their elderly vaccination efforts? No face will be lost.
They are already doing that and it will take some time. However no vaccine is 100% effective against mortality. Bear in mind that China had almost no covid deaths post-2020. Any covid death now is considered a failure as it would have been "preventable" under a strictly zero covid policy.
This is why the figures out of China is looking too good to be true right now with 150K+ recent cases, very low intensive care admission and only 2 deaths so far(both had very serious underlying conditions including end stage renal failure and cerebral infarction). One might argue that the officials have an incentive to hide the true figures to save face, but keeping the numbers low does not necessarily make them look any better as the lockdown appears overly harsh and disproportionate to the risks. The only options is to try and return to the zero covid days, no plan B allowed.
Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown
#170Kind of crazy how sentimental and emotional the response is with barely any actual discussion going on about the merits of this on a grand scale. Yes, stories about people's dogs and temporary economic depression are awful. The larger picture is that China by pursuing these policies has stopped millions of deaths, probably tens of millions of cases of long term disabilities, and overall kept the economy going. It's w…
The emotional response of the people living in China is very relevant to the effectiveness of the collectivist policies. If they continue down the path of CovidZero in the face of evidence that it is not going to work and will only cause economic and emotional pain to the population, it highlights one of the major downsides to collectivist policies. They cannot adapt because they have a culture that looks down on any contrarian thoughts.