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The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

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Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#271

Post by sprkwd »

pmoriarty wrote: post #87
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Lord of the Rings, while the language itself is a bit outdated and it can be quite tedious in a lot of places, it still set a benchmark that - at least as far as I'm aware - hasn't been met yet in other books in the wider fantasy genre. I've read a few, some of the serialized form, but they often feel awkward and derivative; often full of male power fantasies, coming-of-age hero's journey tropes, worldbuilding th…

Check out Stephen Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever . It's about a leper from the modern day who finds himself in a fantasy world he doesn't believe in, and rejects the power he has. That's pretty original.

Incredibly underrated series. As is his Gap Series.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#272

Post by danielodievich »

So I really like this book and reread it every other year. High octane fun that tickles my programmer's fancy.

I like really well made books, so the edition I have is the Easton Press https://www.eastonpress.com/signed-editions/william-gibson-n..., from Ebay although mine is unsigned.

There is an a Suntup Editions version that is to drool over https://suntup.press/neuromancer, especially the Numbered Editions. Completely impossible to get except for thousands of dollars on Ebay. I have a Suntup Edition 451 Fahrenheit and it's amazing, so I can only imagine what this one looks like. And the circuit design has an Easter Egg, although I don't know what it is.

High quality rare books can be an expensive hobby...

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#273

Post by bpiche »

mmaunder wrote: post #68

I’m constantly amazed at how Metaverse aficionados quote Snow Crash and and other 1990s works as cornerstones of cyberspace, when Gibson invented the term and Neuromancer was written in 1984. Gibson is the original. The passage where Case connects to the matrix (also a Gibson term) again for the first time once his nervous system is repaired is heartbreakingly beautiful. I relate to it as a young phone phreak growing…

That last line must be the best one in the whole book. It has remained with me for years. Thank you for sharing this.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#274

Post by bpiche »

nimithryn wrote: post #269
mmaunder wrote: post #68

I’m constantly amazed at how Metaverse aficionados quote Snow Crash and and other 1990s works as cornerstones of cyberspace, when Gibson invented the term and Neuromancer was written in 1984. Gibson is the original. The passage where Case connects to the matrix (also a Gibson term) again for the first time once his nervous system is repaired is heartbreakingly beautiful. I relate to it as a young phone phreak growing…

The writing is beautiful, but I think Neuromancer has failed to capture a modern audience due to some of the stylistic choices Gibson makes (I’m not necessarily arguing they are bad decisions - I personally enjoyed the style - although I think one could argue that). For instance, Gibson frequently skips exposition, and he delivers the narrative with a disconnected, stream-of-consciousness feel that is meant to evoke…

I have to disagree, Snow Crash is interminably long, like most of Stephenson's books. Neuromancer's whole Ocean's 11 Straylight run job is a very clean story.

edit: A lot of Gibson's stream of consciousness writing style can be attributed to the effect of beat writers like Burroughs on him. It's unique but it's also an intentional stylistic decision. Not really an attempt to capture the aesthetics of logging into the net. And as you may know, Snow Crash may seem pulpier but Gibson grew up on pulp like Edgar Rice Burroughs and it affected his work a bit.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#275

Post by bpiche »

jvanderbot wrote: post #246
pmoriarty wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the descriptions of the metaverse are the parts of Neuromancer that hold up least well" I'd be interested in reading descriptions of cyberspace that are better than Neuromancer 's. So far I haven't found any.

The commentary I've read (and agree with), is that the metaverse itself just didn't hold up. The internet did not become a new reality. Instead, our own reality is melding with the internet through always-on devices and miniaturized sensors and wide wireless networks. Instead of some kind of digital lovecraftian portals hidden away in parts of realspace that connect to this magical deadly realm, the modern vision of…

Wasn't it Gibson himself who wrote this, right in the beginning of Zero History if I'm not mistaken, when Cayce is meeting with some French artist in a warehouse in the outskirts of Oakland? The artist is making an augmented reality installation of a cyber whale that you can see in real life with mirrorshades.

And then the artist says 'the internet is e-ver-ting'.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#276

Post by Ninjinka »

I read Neuromancer a few weeks ago, and couldn't get into it. I love books like Snow Crash and The Three Body Problem, but didn't track what was happening Neuromancer half the time and the other half I didn't care. I realize this is probably a personal defect, as so many others laud it as a masterpiece.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#277

Post by nirav72 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #60
nirav72 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have adderall now. Speed with a PG rating

I don't think that's a very kind thing to say about the medications for people for who ADHD medications like amphetamines and methylphenidates have meant a huge improvement in quality of life.

My point was that plenty of people use adderall without being diagnosed with ADHD.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#278

Post by rainonmoon »

dleslie wrote: post #187
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to gatekeep but corporate produced anything cannot be punk. At most, they can serve as a rent seeker for passing along punk to the masses but that's not even what Cyberpunk 2077 is. This is 100% corporate, focus grouped, committee approved, beige trying too hard to be punk. Which is fine if taken for what it really is but what it really is, which isn't punk.

Try to gatekeep all you want; but punks failed to defend their anti-corporate credibility and not only tolerated, but embraced corporate appropriation of their culture. They rode out punk's credibility while riding on boards from Zumies, wearing Hot Topic, and listening to Sum 41 . CDPR is about as authentic as you'll find in high-budget video game development; and as I enjoy high-fidelity entertainment, as well as P…

It's tragic that you refer (erroneously) to "punks" so firmly in the past tense, while awarding credibility to a company best known for its exploitative overtime practices. How's the view from Arasaka Tower?

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#279

Post by tessierashpool »

mmaunder wrote: post #146
sneak wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the descriptions of the metaverse are the parts of Neuromancer that hold up least well. The dirtbags, crime, sex, and drugs are all still perfect, and I imagine will remain so.

They're a 38 year old metaphor. Neil Stephenson's Smartwheels don't exist either, and we still don't have "professional road surfers", but that doesn't make Snow Crash any less relevant: "Smartwheels use sonar, laser range finding and millimeter wave radar to identify mufflers and other debris. Each one consists of a hub with many tiny spokes. Each spoke telescopes into five sections. On the end is a squat foot, rubb…

if you like that, you should definitely check out the tornado chasers' car in Heavy Weather by Bruce Sterling.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#280

Post by bpiche »

ant_li0n wrote: post #264
jvanderbot wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commentary I've read (and agree with), is that the metaverse itself just didn't hold up. The internet did not become a new reality. Instead, our own reality is melding with the internet through always-on devices and miniaturized sensors and wide wireless networks. Instead of some kind of digital lovecraftian portals hidden away in parts of realspace that connect to this magical deadly realm, the modern vision of…

I love Gibson but prefer the Bridge Trilogy over the Sprawl Trilogy. It's a lot closer to what you're describing, and the characters are way more interesting. Characters in the Sprawl seem so two-dimensional to me.

The Bridge trilogy is fantastic but as a fun counterpoint I respectfully refer to you the two deuteragonists of the _first book_, Berry Rydell is a huge meathead and Chevette Washington has less depth than Snow Crash's Y.T., to me, which is saying something.

The data analyst guy who ends up obsessing over the VR idol and ends up in a cardboard box in the Tokyo subway is super super interesting. Probably my favorite part of the whole trilogy. If I am not mistaken, Gibson actually took a lot of inspiration for that character from his own experiences with photography. The ability to intuitively line up the right F-stop, shutter speed, and film speed with a scene and natural light in a second is the inspiration for the way the analyst intuitively senses 'nodes' in a social network.

And I personally think that it is this notion that led the author to write about causality in the Peripheral-Agency series.

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