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The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

sabukaru.online

261–270 of 404 posts

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gibson pioneered the genre - you have to give him that. He is very much off on a lot of details though. For example, in his other books, his descriptions of mercenaries are comical at best for anyone who has a passing familiarity with the topic. Nonetheless, I place him up there with Stephenson. All this DESPITE the fact that Stephenson stands in a league of his own - he pioneered "post cyberpunk" with Diamond Age an…

Bruce Sterling should also be remembered as a major contributor to the formation of the genre, on par with Gibson and Stephenson. Islands in the Net grounded future speculative tech in emerging real-world geopolitics, and Schismatrix took the genre into far future space, introducing the concept of cybernetics vs. biological augmentation.

Sterling was also editor 'Vincent Omniaveritas' behind the early 80s zine 'Cheap Truth [0] collected here: [https://web.archive.org/web/19970315042849/http://www.csdl.t...], where it's described as 'a samizdat' circulated by 'a loose-knit group of SF writers (called by themselves "the Movement")'.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheap_Truth

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#262

I quite appreciate the author's use of Death Burger art as illustration in the article. For me it captures the aesthetic of modern cyberpunk quite well.

I was stoked to see the Necromancer poster used as the header image. Have a print of that in my house. Love the artist's style.

https://citadel9.com/

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the descriptions of the metaverse are the parts of Neuromancer that hold up least well" I'd be interested in reading descriptions of cyberspace that are better than Neuromancer 's. So far I haven't found any.

The commentary I've read (and agree with), is that the metaverse itself just didn't hold up. The internet did not become a new reality. Instead, our own reality is melding with the internet through always-on devices and miniaturized sensors and wide wireless networks. Instead of some kind of digital lovecraftian portals hidden away in parts of realspace that connect to this magical deadly realm, the modern vision of…

I love Gibson but prefer the Bridge Trilogy over the Sprawl Trilogy. It's a lot closer to what you're describing, and the characters are way more interesting. Characters in the Sprawl seem so two-dimensional to me.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#265

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I just don't like snow crash. Does that make me an outlier? The whole thing was silly and far too jrpg for my taste. I mean, stealing the whole "skitchn" thing and slapping "Smooth move, ex lax" on a car when they try to shake you is just campy. "Poor impulse control" -- just slapstick comedy at that point.

It is campy and frequently cheesy, and I think probably influenced somewhat by anime which was in the 80s and early 90s both very different from what it is now, and still in the US a very niche sort of taste in that you had to be somewhat "plugged in" even to have heard about it - it wouldn't hit more widely until the mid- to late-90s Web boom made awareness and access much more broadly available. That's part of the…

Snow Crash was apparently originally envisioned as a graphic novel, hence the tone

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#266

I wonder what the greybeards that grew up on this science fiction, now in their 40s/50s?, think of the world we live in today.

I wonder what the greybeards that grew up on this science fiction, now in their 40s/50s?, think of the world we live in today.

As one of them (I'll be 49 in a couple of months), I expect there is a pretty diverse range of opinions among us.

Me? Relative to cyberpunk fiction specifically? I think the old adage "the future is here, its just unevenly distributed" rings very true. Clearly in certain sense we are living in "the cyberpunk future". But by the same token there are obviously regards in which we are not (so far as we know).

I continue to see Cyberpunk as stimulating and fascinating in terms of thinking about the potential of technological developments, while continuing to be a warning about the dangers of certain paths that we might go down (and in some cases, are arguably already headed down). While I'm not as anti-advertising in the general sense as many HN'ers, I will say I dislike the way so much of what we call "tech" has become all about finding ways to serve more ads to more people, more efficiently - as opposed to working on finding better ways to purify water, sequester carbon from the atmosphere, etc. And I believe that there are company executives out there who would actually authorize the deployment of Max Headroom style "blipverts" even if they were exactly as flawed as described in Max Headroom. Not all would, of course, but I expect they exist.

My relationship with cyberpunk is a bit weird though, because I also don't share the broadly anti-capitalist sentiments often associated with "punk" ideology. In fact, I'm very much an an-cap[1]. So while I enjoy this fiction, I don't always interpret the political bits the way some others might. And as much as I see mega-corporations as an affront to human values, human decency, freedom, etc., I see governments as equally so (or more so). Both are just ways to concentrate power and oppress people in my book. shrug

Anyway, speaking more generally, I think the world we livein today is amazing in many ways, and kinda sucks in quite a few ways. I see Khan Academy, Youtube, Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg, inexpensive but crazy powerful computers, ubiquitous bandwidth, hand-held computers (smart phones) that are basically straight out of science fiction, etc. as adding so much to our world and enabling so many things. But at the same time, you can't ignore climate change, pollution, poverty, rising sea levels, the recent surge in something resembling what you might call "right wing populist fascism", etc. and not be a bit bothered.

We can put men on the moon, but we have people living in cardboard boxes. It's frustrating because I'm convinced we can do better. sigh Sorry for the long rant.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the interview/documentary https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Maps_for_These_Territorie... Gibson is quite self-deprecating. He attributes several aspects of the book that people love to his inexperience as a writer. The main character is cold and vague because he didn’t know how to write a fleshed out character. People jack-in a lot because he was uncomfortable writing scene transitions. Something like “What do yo…

Which is interesting because his descriptions of travel and scene transition in the most recent 5 books of his are deeply flowery and some of my favorite bits of his writing. I suppose writers change and grow over time, and I wonder if some of his style now is due to him trying to fix what he saw as flaws in his earlier work.

They do for example I started to skim through Heinlein's Beyond This Horizon(original release in 1942) and it is pretty horrid, quite badly aged and disconnected... Although it is translation the comments by others aren't exactly praising.

Writing is like any pursuit, you just need to do it to develop and become better at it. Just like coding.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the descriptions of the metaverse are the parts of Neuromancer that hold up least well" I'd be interested in reading descriptions of cyberspace that are better than Neuromancer 's. So far I haven't found any.

Depends on your criteria, I guess. As a poetic fantasy, they are superb. But it's maddening how little sense they make as a way to navigate computer networks. (Why would you visualize servers and executing code in a 3D space that you have to physically navigate, when you could just... execute a command. Gibson's genius was recognizing that real computer hacking wasn't cinematic, and making up his own system.) I still…

I think that’s mostly because he didn’t know anything about computers when he wrote it :)

“I was actually able to write Neuromancer because I didn’t know anything about computers,” he says. “I knew literally nothing. What I did was deconstruct the poetics of the language of people who were already working in the field. I’d stand in the hotel bar at the Seattle science fiction convention listening to these guys who were the first computer programmers I ever saw talk about their work. I had no idea what they were talking about, but that was the first time that I ever heard the word ‘interface’ used as a verb. And I swooned. Wow, that’s a verb. Seriously, poetically that was wonderful. “So I was listening to it as an English honours student. I would take it back out, deconstruct it poetically, and build a world from those bricks. Consequently there are other things in Neuromancer that make no sense. When the going gets really tough in cyberspace, what does Case do? He sends out for a modem. He does! He says: ‘Get me a modem! I’m in deep shit!’ I didn’t know what one was, but I had just heard the word. And I thought: man, it’s sexy.”

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jan/11/william-gibson...

His other inspiration for cyberspace is presciently metaverse-like:

The idea came to him from watching kids playing arcade games – "it seemed to me that what they wanted was to be inside the games, within the notional space of the machine" – and an advertisement at a bus stop for Apple computers. "Everyone is going to have one of these, I thought, and everyone is going to want to live inside them. And somehow I knew that the notional space behind all of the computer screens would be one single universe."

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/sep/22/william-gibson...

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#269

I’m constantly amazed at how Metaverse aficionados quote Snow Crash and and other 1990s works as cornerstones of cyberspace, when Gibson invented the term and Neuromancer was written in 1984. Gibson is the original. The passage where Case connects to the matrix (also a Gibson term) again for the first time once his nervous system is repaired is heartbreakingly beautiful. I relate to it as a young phone phreak growing…

The writing is beautiful, but I think Neuromancer has failed to capture a modern audience due to some of the stylistic choices Gibson makes (I’m not necessarily arguing they are bad decisions - I personally enjoyed the style - although I think one could argue that).

For instance, Gibson frequently skips exposition, and he delivers the narrative with a disconnected, stream-of-consciousness feel that is meant to evoke the sense of disconnection when “channel-hopping” or digging through large amounts of information on the internet. Combined with the frenetic pace of the story it can be confusing if the reader isn’t paying close attention. I’ll add that this was also Gibson’s first novel.

Compare to Snow Crash, which has a pulpier writing style (it was original envisioned as a graphic novel) or even The Matrix, which has a tight narrative. Those are more accessible to a mainstream audience.

Edit: formatting

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanophiles in the 80s were excessive. Scifi from the era has these undertones (Running Man, in 1986, has a bunch of execs being served sushi in post-apocalyptic california, by a geisha). Rising Sun in 1990 personified this fear that Japan would eclipse the US in tech, economy and culture, before they imploded with what we "now" consider an inevitable result of overheated economy. Try flying through Minnesota, Wisco…

Blade Runner (filmed in 1981) has a famous scene in a street-side noodle joint where the characters speak a mishmash of Japanese and other languages. Another famous scene features a geisha on a giant computerized billboard. Blade Runner was based on a Philip K Dick book from 1968. Neuromancer is pretty obviously influenced by these.

William Gibson actually saw Blade Runner before he finished his final draft for Neuromancer. He almost didn't publish it because he was afraid people would think he was ripping off the movie.
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