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The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

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Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#71

Post by pmoriarty »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #54
jmyeet wrote: post #29

I was honestly underwhelmed by Neuromancer. Maybe because so many people raved about it or that I read it many years after it was written. I honestly don't know. It was... OK. But amazing? I don't see it. I love science fiction. One thing you have to realize about science ficiton is that it is a product of the time it was written. It may share many of the aesthetics, themes, philosophies and politics of that time. Li…

I think to focus on Neuromancer's use of Japanese culture is to stay at the surface level. The background of Neuromancer is one of income inequality, human destruction, and almost-absent government and community (partly caused by a ubiquitous global information network that seems to have broken everything.) We don't have brain-computer interfaces today and Chiba City isn't the center of the tech world (maybe that's S…

"Ironically, reading Neuromancer in my older age, the main observation I have is how optimistic it is. The seas aren't rising and the climate seems to be doing just fine."

Gibson has gone on record multiple times in saying that he doesn't write about the future nor does he try to predict the future, but sees himself as always writing about the present.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#72

Post by the_af »

drBonkers wrote: post #62
the_af wrote: post #17

One thing I read somewhere -- and it might have been an interview with Gibson or with someone else talking about his work -- is how much William Gibson despises derivatives of cyberpunk in the books, videogames and movies that followed. Specifically, he dislikes the focus on the aesthetic, neon lights, mirror shades, etc. I think Gibson really dislikes Cyberpunk 2077, for example. Gibson argued they are missing the p…

Capitalism's greatest superpower is absorbing all critique and selling it back to consumers as a luxury good.

Insightful observation. Also depressing. Probably why Gibson dislikes this trend.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#73

Post by pmoriarty »

hajile wrote: post #64
the__alchemist wrote: post #10

I finished reading Neuromancer a week ago. I'd played Cyberpunk 2077 recently, and Dystopia further back. So many of the concepts from those games appear to come directly from Neuromancer! I stumbled upon articles implying they were indirectly influenced; Neuromancer evidently created a whole genre! Btw, compared to hard scifi like Stephenson (relevant comparison due to Snow Crash), Neuromacer isn't really there; its…

You should read Snow Crash. While Neuromancer created the style, Snow Crash added in a lot of missing elements and had the benefit of being written 8 years later and by someone with some with a lot more knowledge of computing.

I tried reading it, and couldn't get in to it. It tried to be funny but wasn't (to my taste), and just seemed very childish. I liked Neuromancer and Count Zero much more.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#74

Post by nurbl »

throw1234651234 wrote: post #30
the__alchemist wrote: post #10

I finished reading Neuromancer a week ago. I'd played Cyberpunk 2077 recently, and Dystopia further back. So many of the concepts from those games appear to come directly from Neuromancer! I stumbled upon articles implying they were indirectly influenced; Neuromancer evidently created a whole genre! Btw, compared to hard scifi like Stephenson (relevant comparison due to Snow Crash), Neuromacer isn't really there; its…

Gibson pioneered the genre - you have to give him that. He is very much off on a lot of details though. For example, in his other books, his descriptions of mercenaries are comical at best for anyone who has a passing familiarity with the topic. Nonetheless, I place him up there with Stephenson. All this DESPITE the fact that Stephenson stands in a league of his own - he pioneered "post cyberpunk" with Diamond Age an…

Having not managed to finish a Stephenson book since "Snow Crash" (which I liked) i may not be in the best position to recommend something to you, but I really like Greg Egan. Truly idea-driven SF which also has interesting enough characters and story. I also like that his books are pretty short, even his trilogy is probably shorter than any single Stephenson book. Very little "fluff".

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#75

Post by matthewdgreen »

XorNot wrote: post #65
matthewdgreen wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think to focus on Neuromancer's use of Japanese culture is to stay at the surface level. The background of Neuromancer is one of income inequality, human destruction, and almost-absent government and community (partly caused by a ubiquitous global information network that seems to have broken everything.) We don't have brain-computer interfaces today and Chiba City isn't the center of the tech world (maybe that's S…

Gibson has been pretty adamant that interpreting the Sprawl setting as a dystopia is not quite understanding it: the Sprawl is a quality of life upgrade for a lot of Earth's citizens today.

Neal Stephenson gives a spicier take on this in Snowcrash: "... the Invisible Hand has taken away all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity."

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#76

Post by pmoriarty »

scrapheap wrote: post #15

If you liked Neuromancer then you should read True Names by Vernor Vinge.

I went on a Vinge binge when I'd heard that he was the originator of the singularity concept. Didn't like any of his work, including True Names. I liked Neuromancer and Count Zero way more.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#77

Post by InitialLastName »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #60
nirav72 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have adderall now. Speed with a PG rating

I don't think that's a very kind thing to say about the medications for people for who ADHD medications like amphetamines and methylphenidates have meant a huge improvement in quality of life.

That it has helped people doesn't make the comparison untrue.

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that many drugs with reputations of illegitimate/illegal use are readily provided to patients (including children) in a pharmaceutical context, most notably amphetamines and opiates.

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#78

Post by dylan604 »

ghostpepper wrote: post #59
teknopaul wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After cyberpunk came steampunk (and all the other x-punks) devoid of anything but visual aesthetic; He has a point IMHO; Big fan of Invurt:: groks cyberpunk; made no attempt to copy the aesthetic;

What is Invurt?

1/Vurt naturally ;P

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17401136-vurt

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#79

Post by Loughla »

pmoriarty wrote: post #48
the_af wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Gibson minds the aesthetic in particular; what he is saying, if I understand him correctly, is that nobody cares about cyberpunk except for the aesthetic. There's nothing beyond it. If there is something, it's the same old tropes about big bad evil 80s-style corporations, usually with a vague Japanese or Asian theme. Everything that was novel about cyberpunk has now been absorbed into the mainstream and…

"It's as lazy as it gets, and definitely not punk." Reading is not very punk, though arguing what punk is is definitely punk.

I would argue that reading, today, absolutely is punk. When the main-stream is delivered at a sixth grade level, in 15 second sound bites with talking heads or funny dances behind it. . . what is more punk that being extraordinarily well-read?

Re: The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk

#80

Post by mherdeg »

the_af wrote: post #17

One thing I read somewhere -- and it might have been an interview with Gibson or with someone else talking about his work -- is how much William Gibson despises derivatives of cyberpunk in the books, videogames and movies that followed. Specifically, he dislikes the focus on the aesthetic, neon lights, mirror shades, etc. I think Gibson really dislikes Cyberpunk 2077, for example. Gibson argued they are missing the p…

I liked Paolo Bagciaglupi's "The Calorie Man" (which I read in "Rewired: The Post-Cyberpunk Anthology") as an example of this kind of "if we project today's state of affairs 30 years into the future, what is the dystopia it produces?" line of reasoning.

The story is about megacorporations greedily controlling the supply of food via patents on GMO crops in a post-peak-oil society. There's no artificial general intelligence lurking in the electrons to save or doom us, just the consequences of our own choices.

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