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Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

theintercept.com

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Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#391

Post by josephcsible »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #350
josephcsible wrote: post #169

If this upsets you, then you probably shouldn't use the "it's a private company" defense when people are upset by other instances of Big Tech being guilty of censorship.

I'm not sure you understand the difference between "Big Tech company using censorship to prevent their underpaid and overworked employees taking collective action" and "Big Tech company using censorship to avoid legal liability after yet another dumb fuck who hung out on their platform with like minded dumb fucks decides to shoot up a mosque/school/night club/music festival, and live streams it on Big Tech's platform…

> Big Tech company using censorship to avoid legal liability

Big Tech censors a bunch of stuff that there would have been zero legal risk in leaving up.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#392

Post by zardo »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #106

Please keep in mind this is a rewards program text box, not a chat app. The program itself may be stupid, but I don't know any company that would allow these terms in internally visible recognition. My company uses manual review for recognition, but I would expect a call from my manager if I sent a public kudos "Great job fighting for union pay raises for the slave labor at our company"

"Good job taking out the trash from the restroom when the janitorial staff was out getting the vaccine!"

"Good job taking out the *** from the ****** when the janitorial staff was out getting the ******!"

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#393

Post by spacephysics »

Regardless if it’s a chat app or some kudos system (as others alluded to), if online gaming has taught me anything, then banned words that people really want to say will either be written as b4NN3D or have an alias that seems innocuous at first glance.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#394

Post by [deleted] »

nemo44x wrote: post #253
jmyeet wrote: post #90

This is incredibly shortsighted and possibly illegal. There are limits to what companies can do to prevent or impede you from forming or joining a union. Amazon will need to tread very carefully here. But why would anyone use the company's messaging app this way anyway? Wouldn't employees be safer just using Signal, Google Talk (or whatever it's called now), FB Messenger, WhatsApp or whatever? If not, won't moves lik…

The middle classes have never been wealthier thanks to a greatly improved upper middle class over the last 40 years and the lower class has shrunk considerably over those years.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#395

Post by kqr »

jamincan wrote: post #376
kqr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censored is not technically the right word, though. You don't directly get thrown in jail for discussing union stuff.

censorship ≠ incarceration

Well, almost. Censorship is generally backed by some sort of threat of violence.

If I refuse to propagate speech I disagree with, it might be hypocritical of me, or just impolite, but it's not censorship.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#396

Post by someelephant »

bamboozled wrote: post #214
someelephant wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems odd to blame other workers here even if they do make a lot of money. The only way workers will be helped is other jobs provide better value to the worker or companies are regulated to provide better conditions. Personal and corporate interests will always trump community interests.

I've turned down a bunch of jobs on moral grounds. I work for a charity organization now. I make less money but I'm much happier then I have been working in jobs with different / more shady objectives.

If we could convert the value you get from charity work in to dollars, you would be making more than people working for big corp. Your values are atypical, and I'm glad you are able to do the work that provides you with the most benefit.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#397

Post by toyg »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #385
toyg wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that in most cases you don't need any major social-engineering. The elements of efficiency and obedience to the hierarchy are already there, built-in in most orderly societies. You just need to veer the actual aims a little bit, and you are effectively in a regime not very different from the nazi one. That's why seemingly democratic societies can turn into regimes almost overnight.

This is discounting all the times people fight back against fascism though. Lots and lots of people absolutely do not accept some natural link between orderly conduct and fascism, and so that goes back to my original point about Eichmann making Nazism seem banal as a goal for the Nazi ideology - if we're basically one step away from becoming Nazis at any point, is what they did really so bad? Well, yes it was, becaus…

> This is discounting all the times people fight back against fascism though.

That's a personal interpretation. In fact, in many ways it doesn't discount it but actually inspires them, asserting that without such efforts society is likely to backslide into fascism fairly easily. Which tbh, if you've lived in the US from 2001 to 2005, or today in Russia or Hungary, you've basically experienced already.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#398

Post by giraffe_lady »

goodpoint wrote: post #360
grapeskin wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people that transferred from psychology degrees to programming jobs strictly through being self taught and they're making just shy of six figures. I know people who got web development jobs right out of high school. Programming is infinitely easier to get into than any other high paying field. There's no standardized exam or certification board keeping people out. The problem is people need time to study it, a…

> Programming is infinitely easier to get into than any other high paying field Being an average programmer is indeed easy compared to many skilled jobs. In some areas people are called "senior" after doing a 6-months bootcamp and landing a job copypasting stack overflow for 3 years. Being a good software engineer is a different thing and takes endless learning.

We aren't talking about what it takes to be a good one though, just to be one. Your last sentence is true of literally any work or skill one chooses to master. And choosing mastery isn't required in any of them, there are other optimizations available.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#399

Post by nemo44x »

mschuster91 wrote: post #315
nemo44x wrote: post #252

Everyone says that Twitter can limit speech because it’s not the government and 1a isn’t at issue. So why is it different when a private corporation limits speech on their platform? Do you understand now why we think it’s a bad precedent?

Talking on Twitter is not legally protected. Talking about unionization, wages and workplace conditions however is .

Sure but not in their platforms or tools.

Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”

#400

Post by olalonde »

tsimionescu wrote: post #244
olalonde wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot imagine anyone here seriously defending this unless you’re just looking to be a contrarian. HN has a large libertarian base who are against regulated unions. They are seen as bad government interference in the free enterprise system. I don't want to start an argument but there's a lot of economics science that supports that belief.

Well, if your arguments are coming from "economics science", feel free to make them. It's usually very entertaining to see what crazy things economists convince themselves to believe, while also thinking they are doing science.

HN isn't the best place for that (see the many emotionally charged replies to my comment). I just wanted to point out that it was possible to be anti-union without being contrarian.
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