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Exit interviews are a trap

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Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#311

Post by digisign »

gotaquestion wrote: post #277
bradlys wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's. I don't know whether I'm so good at the game I don't know I'm playing it--because nothing bad has happened--or, I'm not playing it at all--and nothing bad has happened. And I've been in this since the late 80's, through IBM, Microsoft, and Intel, not to mention two startups and contracting. Can you elaborate what The Game actually is?

These other responses sound like an episode of Dynasty to be honest. All you have to do is keep up a minimum of a mildly positive spin on things and get your work done. That's it.

To get through to management, you'll probably have to kick it up a notch for every promotion.

If there's more drama that than, you're working at a poorly managed organization. Move on at the first opportunity, life is too short.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#312

Post by flog »

drewcoo wrote: post #204
cpach wrote: post #22

What’s the point of exit interviews really? I had an exit interview earlier this year. All the constructive criticism I had, I had already given, during my tenure. And as Jacob alludes to, there’s no point in venting in an exit interview.

> What’s the point of exit interviews really? I always assumed it was HR's last chance to head off potential lawsuits.

Ditto. I assumed it was an opportunity to document any legally problematic reasons that drove you to quit so they could get ahead of them, or reinforce their case for firing you.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#313

Post by MauranKilom »

fleddr wrote: post #288
bradlys wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

Here's my old man manual to life at work. Show up and do the work, consistently. Just this basic discipline puts you in the top 20% of performers, everywhere. Make your superiors look good and in any case, not bad. They don't care what you do for as long as you do this. This does not require sucking up, just deliver. Be reliable. Deliver on promises, likewise do not commit to a promise you can't fulfill and explain w…

> I refuse to do work that harms society, but other than that I'll gladly tell whoever in the office anything they want to hear if "that's how it works".

So does that preclude work where telling your boss what they want to hear puts others at risk? Where along the scale of Chernobyl, Challenger disaster, medical implants, working on Facebook ads, writing enterprise grade Java, or creating eggbeater calibration routines do you draw the line at "harms society" when all you care about is keeping your boss happy?

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#315

Post by nathanlied »

throw1230 wrote: post #248
stavros wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except aroundtown expressed their opinion to HR when asked, and the boss went around badmouthing them around town. Only one of the two is the asshole here.

Nah man, exit interviews aren't to express opinions or talk shit, it's a data source for HR to identify problems emerging as patterns and improve their org/company. One guy saying "my boss sucked" isn't really feedback

Why couldn't HR see this as just a data-point? Put things this way, if the "junior opinionated guy" is full of it, this kind of feedback won't emerge again, and you can discount it.

Or maybe you've got some other data-points indicating this guy is an issue? Say, his projects are consistently late, or there's issues developing new features, or his teams have a higher attrition rate, or, or, or.

This is why it's my opinion that these things should be as secret as possible so people can feel comfortable voicing their real opinions knowing it won't blow back on them, and the company can get real feedback that might prevent thornier issues from becoming terminal.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#316

Post by abandonliberty »

fleddr wrote: post #233

You should definitely go to an exit interview. In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don't dramatize the lying part because you lied to get in and the employer lied about how great their company is. Work is a lie, play the game. In the case of a drama-free breakup, when pressed for feedback and the room being receptive of it, do share your thought…

I can see how, for the jaded, data might match these conclusions.

It feels like something written by someone with relatively low social and emotional intelligence, which will generate a negative feedback loop and more disappointment and cynicism.

You have an opportunity to share constructive feedback. If you use that opportunity to get revenge, it will reflect on you. It doesn't mean you have to lie through your teeth, but it also doesn't mean you owe them the completely unadulterated version of your personal catharsis.

Focus on the outcome you want to create.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#317

Post by yebyen »

mindcrime wrote: post #293
plorkyeran wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about another scenario: you later find yourself working under the same person, who you made like you by giving them useful feedback in your exit interview. Or you later find yourself working with one of your ex-coworkers again, who saw one of their major pain-points at that previous job go away because of your exit interview. I think the assumption that the only possible result of being honest in your exit interv…

How about another scenario: you later find yourself working under the same person, who you made like you by giving them useful feedback in your exit interview. Or you later find yourself working with one of your ex-coworkers again, who saw one of their major pain-points at that previous job go away because of your exit interview. Sure, those things could happen. But those of us arguing against being overly honest in…

> But many (most?) people don't suffer criticism well in my experience - and this seems to be especially true of the people who are most worthy of being criticized.

This is definitely a cultural thing, I brought this up with my team recently, the concept of "negative feedback" and got two different reactions – my feedback to the team was about how we give negative feedback, and nobody at all agreed with that phrasing LOL

Either some people who heard what I said and thought, surely this means when you have done something wrong, and it's not actually negative feedback, but corrective feedback so that you know how to do that thing right in the future.

And the other reaction was, "negative feedback, positive feedback" no such thing it is all just feedback, but watch out for positive feedback because all of it is probably fake, and nobody is fooled by that "compliment sandwich" BS.

I don't think this is a problem for exit interviews, at least not exclusively; the point is that people are either receptive to feedback or they aren't. You can try to candy coat it, but if there's any chance that being direct is going to make the feedback more likely to land, I personally think I prefer the direct approach.

(Then again, I never notice compliment sandwiches, so maybe they work on me.)

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#318

Post by tamrix »

bradlys wrote: post #265
fleddr wrote: post #233

You should definitely go to an exit interview. In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don't dramatize the lying part because you lied to get in and the employer lied about how great their company is. Work is a lie, play the game. In the case of a drama-free breakup, when pressed for feedback and the room being receptive of it, do share your thought…

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

And always say the money wasn't enough. Your past employees will thank you. ;)

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#319

Post by ianai »

aroundtown wrote: post #99

I made the mistake and told the truth one time early in my career. I got fired, err... I wasn't retained after a multi-month temp period, and was brought in to be fired, then exit interviewed. I was upset, but stuck to the truth. My direct boss was passive aggressive, didn't like me, and excluded me from the team. His code was awful, in the long term wasn't maintainable, and wouldn't be able to meet the needs of the…

What’s the long term story for that startup and boss? Any further success or failure?

A few big tricks to learn in career maturity involve how to get along in situations where there may be some toxic or even just unhelpful factors. Figure out how to be unthreatening and work with or beside cliques. Figure out how to work around technical problems without making enemies. Etc. Also be sure to draw lines that don’t limit you too much nor let you come to harm.

And don’t say jack in an exit interview.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#320

Post by saalweachter »

legitster wrote: post #229
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that makes tangiable improvement to the real world would be a good start

Then be a plumber! (But then again, I guess plumbers work on the same boring stuff every day from age 21 to 65+)

I don't know, as a homeowner I've only seen plumbing in a couple of houses, but they seem to be constantly discovering innovative solutions to the same basic problems.
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