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Exit interviews are a trap

jacobian.org

231–240 of 431 posts

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#231
Jacob, this is...so disappointing.

Avoid, be bland, lie? There is no integrity here.

The upside of being honest is 1) preserving your integrity, and 2) most people who leave share their reasons for leaving with someone ultimately, which usually gets back to the team they left. If you share a different story and your old team finds out later, it's just going to create a worse impression.

How about: find a clear but respectful way of articulating why you are leaving. And if the complaints are longstanding, you don't need to go on and on about them, you can just reference past conversations and be done with it.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#232
I think I just came up with a new rule: You should never be in an exit interview with anything new to say. If you find yourself revealing anything in the exit interview that the company doesn't already know, you should've brought it up awhile back!

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#233
You should definitely go to an exit interview.

In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don't dramatize the lying part because you lied to get in and the employer lied about how great their company is. Work is a lie, play the game.

In the case of a drama-free breakup, when pressed for feedback and the room being receptive of it, do share your thoughts. But toned down, in a light hearted manner. Comment on things and processes, not people. This gives the impression "helpful until the end".

Both ways are a clean exit, with no bridges burned. There might come a time in your life where you're less desirable on the market, having intact relations can make a huge difference then.

You should internalize the dishonesty as a type of strength, because that's what it is in this context. In a sour breakup, you're given the perfect opportunity for revenge, with little immediate consequences.

Your ex-boss Tim is an asshole. He knows he is. And you know he is. You now have the opportunity to finally say it to his face.

Applying silence in this situation is powerful. It says so much more. I could harm you right now, but I chose not to. This radiates self control, which is widely respected. Meanwhile, Tim was looking forward to a good burn and argument, but didn't get any. He feels submissive, like a Roman emperor giving him a thumbs up, allowed to live another day.

And that's how you play it. Alternatively, you can be 21 years old and post on Medium "7 reasons why I quite company X after 8 months". Let me know how that goes.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#234

I got burned once when my company did a annual employee survey. My boss determined who gave the anonymous answer and fired me eventually.

same here. the companies that give those surveys play games with categories to ensure managers can always narrow it down. If I were a manager, I could never trust employees' survey answers. Since I got laid-off, my answer to every question has always been perfect 5 out of 5, unless I genuinely thought it needed improvement, it which case it gets a 4 out of 5. And even then I will answer no more than 5% of questions w…

My sister’s team did something truly great with the satisfaction surveys. They all gave the same marks along the months: 6, 7, 10, 8, 8, 10, 7, 6.

It made a very nice Batman shadow on the manager’s dashboard. That’s about all they can be used for.

…which is a pretty good proof of team cohesion.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you do when you work for a company where you think managers are bad, and their managers are bad, but they all think they are great and they think you're the problem? How do you objectively (not subjectively) determine if a manager is bad? If 200 people in the organization are "happy enough", it's your word versus theirs on what a good manager vs a bad manager is. If you notice you are the only one in 200 pe…

> If you notice you are the only one in 200 people have any issues, a reasonable question to ask yourself is if the problem is you. This is exactly the right attitude. If everyone else is happy and the only problem is you, all the more reason to be respectful! It's better to treat it as a cultural misfit rather than ask them risk making 200 other employees unhappy to appease you.

Also, answering the question can help you find what you are looking for.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#236
It honestly sounds like the author simply doesn't know how to effectively give feedback. This line is really telling:

> So, the best case scenario is a very unlikely chance of a positive outcome, and even if you get that positive outcome, it’s of no direct value to you.

What if you own equity? What if you just want to leave places better than you found them and any hope this last meeting would help is enough for you?

Anchoring your entire spiel with "look I really want to preface this by saying I'm telling you this because I'm hoping enough people leaving over it will finally get the company to take it seriously. I care about because I have friends here I really wish well for, and I have equity in the company and want to see it succeed" then go on to provide clear and actionable (even if uncomfortable feedback).

Examples of this kind of feedback:

* Troy has been a Product Manager of for 8 months now and has yet to product roadmaps that fire up myself and the rest of the engineers. This is starting to impact how we think about technical foundations work and leaves engineers feeling bored on one of our most mission critical teams. should have a pulse on this by now, and I would hope would do something otherwise will continue to lose great engineers.

Obviously this is all case-by-case, but it feels like any company where the fall out was so bad you need to lie wouldn't give you positive references anyway. I don't know probably my own biases, but I automatically assume people are bad at giving feedback when I read salty articles like this. I've been in several jobs where I've been able to give cutting feedback in an exit but also maintained great relationships with folks. The underlying theme has always been to learn how to give effective feedback and give it frequently. Effective means concise, actionable, measurable.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#238
post #39

Is everyone really doing exit interviews this wrong? At my company the exit interview is with HR. All feedback is anonymous, rolled up with non-exit feedback, and delivered to managers/leads periodically so it can't be easily linked back. As a manager, this has been extremely helpful. HR is not always your friend, but in my scenario there is really nothing to lose.

> All feedback is anonymous, rolled up with non-exit feedback, and delivered to managers/leads periodically so it can't be easily linked back.

I think the Brooklyn bridge's on sale.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#239
One of the hosts on the podcast Softskills Engineering shared a story around Exit Interviews.

Exit interviews don't provide any benefit to the person leaving, so the out-the-door coworker asked their remaining teammates what they would like him to say during his exit interview. The remaining teammates essentially said that they would like more competitive pay, so the departing person kept bringing everything back to that topic during the interview. A few months after he left, the remaining teammates let him know that they all received raises.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Why should I care? I say things during an exit interview I want them to know.

Why should I care? I say things during an exit interview I want them to know. Because you can't predict the future with 100% fidelity. Which means you could find yourself in situations like: - working under the same person (that you pissed off via the exit interview) again at a different company - applying for a job at another company where that person (that you pissed off via the exit interview) now works and will b…

> I would say there's nothing to be gained from being honest during an exit interview

Maybe for me. But I know for a fact that one of my exit interviews was used as part of a basis to reassign a manager and give everyone in the department a raise. So I consider giving a good exit interview part of doing the right thing.

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