Exit interviews are a trap • Hacker News Board

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#161

Post by krosaen » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

The headline had me clicking assuming I would disagree - as I think "trap" assumes nefarious intentions that I don't think are there most of the time.

But I found I agreed with the main points:

1) There's little chance your frank feedback will have a positive impact

2) There's small but real chance of a downside you can't fully quantify. Even this possibility may cause you stress.

What I think is missing is that before you decide to leave, do give honest feedback. I don't think shying away from conflict for fear of retaliation is a good idea - you can shape the place you are still in. But once you are gone, I think the chances are smaller, and you have already decided to left in any case, which probably means you believe whatever you are leaving about will not change.

If you have been giving honest feedback all along, and then do decide to leave, the people you trust will already know why you are leaving and can choose to take the signal that you felt strongly enough to leave to heart if they chose.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#162

Post by cpeterso » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #102

legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

> criticize bad managers. What do you do when you work for a company where you think managers are bad, and their managers are bad, but they all think they are great and they think you're the problem? How do you objectively (not subjectively) determine if a manager is bad? If 200 people in the organization are "happy enough", it's your word versus theirs on what a good manager vs a bad manager is. HR doesn't care (in…

> How do you objectively (not subjectively) determine if a manager is bad? If 200 people in the organization are "happy enough", it's your word versus theirs on what a good manager vs a bad manager is.

HR should track the attrition rate for each manager. If twice as many of manager X's reports are quitting or transfer to other teams than manager Y's reports, then manager X or the projects they manage might be a problem (for employee morale and company success).

HR can also send out anonymous employee engagement surveys.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#163

Post by cpach » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #119

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always assumed the point was that an employee on their way out would be more forthright in providing honest and candid feedback since they're no longer worried about getting fired, and they would use that feedback to reduce further turnover. But seeing how rarely that feedback is acted on, yeah...I'm failing to see the point in exit interviews.

The biggest underlying issue seems that no feedback is acted on.

Yep. This is my take though: Why depend on exit interviews to try to gather (or pretend to gather) important information about your organization? It’s much better to foster an organisation where people can voice their opinion while they’re still employed.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#164

Post by notahacker » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

ithkuil wrote: post #48

At one of my last jobs at a big corp I was so surprised that when I quit there was no exit interview. It kinda made sense though, as I noticed there were no real incentives to improve things.

At a big corp I quit, I was surprised there was an exit interview because it wasn't the first time I left them!

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#165

Post by bumby » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

heurisko wrote: post #84

bumby wrote: post #20

My issue with the author's claims is that everything is framed in a "what's in it for me" reference. Even when they decided to break their own rule and go to an exit interview, the decision was made because there was the "didn’t think I had any downside risk." There are times when your personal choices may need to take a backseat to more important goals. If you are really committed to a mission, even one you've decid…

> Would you prefer that employee voice their opinion during exit If it's something really important, e.g. safety culture, then the employee should have already raised this much, much earlier. If the company didn't listen then, then evidently they see concerning behaviour as an acceptable cost of running their business in a certain way. I think it's bad to say anything revelatory in an exit interview, as it shows you…

To the point of another post, I don't think they are mutually exclusive unless the exit interview is held by the same person who you would normally voice daily concerns to (e.g., direct supervisor). Many organizations have exit interviews scheduled with people many levels higher precisely because they recognize the middle-managers won't have the ability to sanitize the feedback first.

Meaning it's possible to have been voicing concerns the entire time but not have them reach the same level as you'd get at an exit interview. I look at exit interviews as an accountability measure for mid-level management.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#166

Post by pr07ecH70r » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:03 PM UTC

Funny as it is, you are right. In a past life, with a past company (now out of business), and a past boss (I intentionally write "boss", as this guy had nothing to do with a leader) I made all of the wrong choices on the points you marked. Although, I had/still have a great reputation in my industry, it happened exactly as you said... after I moved to my next step in my career, rumors start to appear that my old boss said bad things about me. Luckily, his own reputation went all the way to the ground and under in the next year, and the untruths he said did not make any harm. But this is real, if I had left without going head first into this guy and answered the exit interview questions impassively, I would have saved a lot of negative emotions. Just the feeling of telling everything straight was too much to resist for my broken ego. Now I know best, I am leaving, who cares... the next day I am gone, page is closed, spent the energy for future positive, than for past/current negative.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#167

Post by barnacled » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:03 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

You are taking out the human element of a bad manager wanting revenge for you bad-mouthing them. You might say 'well it's not professional to do that!', however a well motivated manager with an axe to grind can find all sorts of ways to cause trouble for you within 'the rules', which is often precisely how bad managers operate on the job. In fact, the article goes into detail on this.

It's actually something of an archetype for a manager to be snide and 'keep within the rules' while absolutely making employee's lives miserable. That's how they survive politically. I should know, I've had it done to me.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#168

Post by legitster » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:04 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #102

legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

> criticize bad managers. What do you do when you work for a company where you think managers are bad, and their managers are bad, but they all think they are great and they think you're the problem? How do you objectively (not subjectively) determine if a manager is bad? If 200 people in the organization are "happy enough", it's your word versus theirs on what a good manager vs a bad manager is. HR doesn't care (in…

Sure, if leadership is universally terrible, say your piece and walk away. But there are plenty of situations were the company is okay enough, but leadership should know that there's a specific department or manager who is contributing to turnover.

If you refuse to speak up because you think no one will listen, you might equally be part of the problem.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#169

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:05 PM UTC

rising-sky wrote: post #73

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. It seems to me that the author is suggesting a third type of person: one who is professional until they're criticized.

then they are not professional, taking constructive criticism come with being being professional

I would agree with this take but there's still a point about why I worded it the way I did.

I thought about wording it differently (e.g., a person will behave professionally until ...) to help illustrate that but the way I chose to word it also helps to illustrate the perceptions of the other individual: it seemed very much that they were professional until their behavior changed.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#170

Post by cuddlybacon » Mon, Apr 04, 2022, 7:05 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #102

legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

> criticize bad managers. What do you do when you work for a company where you think managers are bad, and their managers are bad, but they all think they are great and they think you're the problem? How do you objectively (not subjectively) determine if a manager is bad? If 200 people in the organization are "happy enough", it's your word versus theirs on what a good manager vs a bad manager is. HR doesn't care (in…

> What do you do when you work for a company where you think managers are bad, and their managers are bad, but they all think they are great and they think you're the problem? How do you objectively (not subjectively) determine if a manager is bad? If 200 people in the organization are "happy enough", it's your word versus theirs on what a good manager vs a bad manager is.

If you notice you are the only one in 200 people have any issues, a reasonable question to ask yourself is if the problem is you. If you end up believing you aren't, you should at least be able to articulate why you're the only one.