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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#571

Post by seibelj »

djrobstep wrote: post #543
seibelj wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can always get a new job. But if every company has a monopoly union, can’t avoid that. Really don’t understand the reasoning to not making union membership voluntary. Completely illogical. Basically you agree it’s authoritarian but “it’s better than the alternative” which is bullshit.

Can always get a new job. But if every company has shareholders, can’t avoid that. Really don’t understand the reasoning to not making contributing to shareholder profit voluntary. Completely illogical. Basically you agree it’s authoritarian but “it’s better than the alternative” which is bullshit.

There are worker co-ops and communal living groups. No one forces you to join a traditional corporation. You could also (gasp!) start your own company… But that’s a lot of work!

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#572

Post by salawat »

jasode wrote: post #145
cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

>unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. It really depends on how things play out. E.g. what the extra union dues' payments will be in relation to the extra benefits received from union representation. Or maybe Amazon responds with a "business decision" to close JFK8 fulfillment center. So it ca…

Woah, woah, woah.

Hold it there, sparky.

Management (now in Chicago to put distance between them and the unionized workforce) established the South Carolina facility to try to escape the union, and as a result, saw such a sharp drop in Quality over and above what was going on because of the financialization of Boeing entire nations refused to take delivery of aircraft from that facility.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#573

Post by chimeracoder »

jasode wrote: post #145
cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

>unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. It really depends on how things play out. E.g. what the extra union dues' payments will be in relation to the extra benefits received from union representation. Or maybe Amazon responds with a "business decision" to close JFK8 fulfillment center. So it ca…

> Or maybe Amazon responds with a "business decision" to close JFK8 fulfillment center.

Given the specifics at hand here, that would likely be seen as a retaliatory move to discourage unionization in other branches, which is illegal. There's actually precedent in some cases for forcing an employer to reopen a branch if it was found to be closed as retaliation for union activity.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#574

Post by s1artibartfast »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #520
s1artibartfast wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an uncharitable reading. Almost no one would answer that they want the government to impose positions over their personal views on those topics

Except it's accurate. Most conservatives are fair-weather individualists who only care about "liberty" in loose terms as long as the liberty that they believe is being affected is their own. We had to drag conservatives kicking and screaming over the past 30 years to allow gays to have the right to marry and openly serve in the military, just like we had to drag them kicking and screaming 60 years ago to allow minori…

Reread my post, I I thought I was clear emphasizing that they didn't want imposition on themselves. Nobody does

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#575

Post by dillondoyle »

alexk307 wrote: post #305

> Employees cast 2,654 votes to be represented by Amazon Labor Union and 2,131 against, giving the union a win by more than 10 percentage points, according to the National Labor Relations Board. More than 8,300 workers at the building This is just sad. Just a hair over 50% of the eligible voters voted; weirdly, approximately the same voter turnout for US elections historically. Does half of any given population just…

Not care is a part of it. But "they're both the same," "it doesn't matter," "I think ___ crazy thing from the internet" are more common imho.

I work in politics and it drives me nuts the self reinforcing idea that your vote doesn't matter.

Combined with false equivalences and inflexibility to see a larger viewpoint (that no one will get 100% 1:1 policy representation) just lets older people who consistently vote run away with it.

There is also entrenched structural problems as a result of R control, especially state & county level. That is also a part of low turnout.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#576

Post by trextrex »

eigenvalue wrote: post #290

When this has happened at individual Walmart stores in the past, the company would immediately shut down the store and everyone would lose their jobs. A couple years later they would build a new store within 20 or so miles of the old store, free of the union. This was obviously financially painful for Walmart, but it served as such a strong signal to employees to not even try to unionize that it must have paid for it…

How's that even legal? Aren't there laws to prevent corporate anti-union bullying?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#577

Post by LoveGracePeace »

jdmichal wrote: post #496
ARandomerDude wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see…

In my early 20's, I would have agreed 100% with your stance. But, you know what really gives people freedom and liberty? The freedom to fail without worrying about how they're going to keep a roof over their head and a meal on the table. Without worrying that they're one medical emergency away from losing everything they've worked for. You want people creating small, lifestyle businesses? Give them a safety net and l…

No. Any government big enough to bail everyone out, is big enough to take away everything we have. One of the parent posters said they didn't get the Trump thing. It's easy. Trump whether worth $1 or Ten Billion dollars got what converservatives and the majority want; government out of the way. And preferably the end of career politicians.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#578

Post by parineum »

glitchc wrote: post #560
parineum wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take a corporate tax loophole Tax policy you disagree with isn't a loophole.

Tax policy that benefits the select few instead of the country is a loophole.

Not if it was designed to do that.

A loophole is using a thing (a loophole) for something it is not supposed to be used for but is advantageous (entry).

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#579

Post by bushbaba »

relueeuler wrote: post #538
eigenvalue wrote: post #290

When this has happened at individual Walmart stores in the past, the company would immediately shut down the store and everyone would lose their jobs. A couple years later they would build a new store within 20 or so miles of the old store, free of the union. This was obviously financially painful for Walmart, but it served as such a strong signal to employees to not even try to unionize that it must have paid for it…

Another direction is more automation. Cover more tasks by humans with robots (this union stuff acts as a selection pressure for innovation). Then just staff the place with qualified robot overlords.

Or robotics that are controlled by humans in a 3rd country.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#580

Post by qgin »

bobsmooth wrote: post #503
nessguy wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of unions more than the reality. My first job was earning minimum wage working full-time at Safeway. After working there for about 9 months I quit because I didn't want to pay union dues to join the union. I was already only making minimum wage, it wasn't like the union was improving my salary. The required hour long lunch breaks might have been thanks to the union, but I hated having to take hour lon…

>It left a bad taste in my mouth. Buy better food? I don't understand how a person can eat their food and digest it in 30 minutes.

Depends on whether you want to have a long lunch in the middle of the day or get Done with the workday as quickly as possible.
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