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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#511

Post by nemo44x »

JustLurking2022 wrote: post #294
cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

I predict the Staten Island warehouse will soon be closed due to redundancy as part of a strategic rebalancing of their logistics operations due to changing consumer demand. Someone at Amazon is probably already touring all the warehouse sites in Jersey. Doubt they accept this loss.

Of course. This “win” will just mean thousands of people making good money doing short term work (Amazon warehouses are not a career - most workers use it to fill in) won’t have this option.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#512

Post by ekianjo »

cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

you will see a wave of robotization as well because unions will take successful companies to the ground.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#513

Post by archon810 »

mabbo wrote: post #329
eigenvalue wrote: post #290

When this has happened at individual Walmart stores in the past, the company would immediately shut down the store and everyone would lose their jobs. A couple years later they would build a new store within 20 or so miles of the old store, free of the union. This was obviously financially painful for Walmart, but it served as such a strong signal to employees to not even try to unionize that it must have paid for it…

The capital cost to build a modern Amazon Fulfillment Center is absolutely staggering. I used to be part of a team that helped launch them. Go watch one of those "inside the Amazon warehouse" videos on YouTube. The box/tote sorting machines are millions of dollars each, and there are probably 3 big ones and maybe 2 or 3 more small ones. The ubiquitous conveyor belts are cheap individually, but there are miles of them…

I understand the robots are expensive, but dismantling a distribution center doesn't mean destroying the robots. They can just ship them to a new distribution center elsewhere, pay for relocation and setup, but it's not like they have to destroy them and lose all value.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#514

Post by MisterBastahrd »

umvi wrote: post #499
jdmichal wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my early 20's, I would have agreed 100% with your stance. But, you know what really gives people freedom and liberty? The freedom to fail without worrying about how they're going to keep a roof over their head and a meal on the table. Without worrying that they're one medical emergency away from losing everything they've worked for. You want people creating small, lifestyle businesses? Give them a safety net and l…

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

Most "businesses" created in America are shell corps designed to push money around and limit liabilities. They don't produce anything.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#515

Post by nemo44x »

mabbo wrote: post #329
eigenvalue wrote: post #290

When this has happened at individual Walmart stores in the past, the company would immediately shut down the store and everyone would lose their jobs. A couple years later they would build a new store within 20 or so miles of the old store, free of the union. This was obviously financially painful for Walmart, but it served as such a strong signal to employees to not even try to unionize that it must have paid for it…

The capital cost to build a modern Amazon Fulfillment Center is absolutely staggering. I used to be part of a team that helped launch them. Go watch one of those "inside the Amazon warehouse" videos on YouTube. The box/tote sorting machines are millions of dollars each, and there are probably 3 big ones and maybe 2 or 3 more small ones. The ubiquitous conveyor belts are cheap individually, but there are miles of them…

They have so much money it’s not really a thing. This particular warehouse will be made an example of. The sad part is the workers had a good thing going. A fair thing. But a few agitators ruined it to make their own profit. Sad.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#516

Post by nemo44x »

TameAntelope wrote: post #295
eigenvalue wrote: post #290

When this has happened at individual Walmart stores in the past, the company would immediately shut down the store and everyone would lose their jobs. A couple years later they would build a new store within 20 or so miles of the old store, free of the union. This was obviously financially painful for Walmart, but it served as such a strong signal to employees to not even try to unionize that it must have paid for it…

I don't think Amazon wants to shut this warehouse down, my rough understanding is that it's a hugely important warehouse, serving NYC's millions of customers.

I know people and it’s already in shut down mode. Do you really think they designed their infra to be that vulnerable?

It’s time to make a point and turn the community against the agitators. They destroyed good jobs.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#517

Post by nemo44x »

alexk307 wrote: post #305

> Employees cast 2,654 votes to be represented by Amazon Labor Union and 2,131 against, giving the union a win by more than 10 percentage points, according to the National Labor Relations Board. More than 8,300 workers at the building This is just sad. Just a hair over 50% of the eligible voters voted; weirdly, approximately the same voter turnout for US elections historically. Does half of any given population just…

Most people are just doing the job for a few weeks for extra cash. It’s not a career. That’s the benefit to most people. This union is a joke.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#518

Post by jdmichal »

umvi wrote: post #499
jdmichal wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my early 20's, I would have agreed 100% with your stance. But, you know what really gives people freedom and liberty? The freedom to fail without worrying about how they're going to keep a roof over their head and a meal on the table. Without worrying that they're one medical emergency away from losing everything they've worked for. You want people creating small, lifestyle businesses? Give them a safety net and l…

I'm not convinced. There are plenty of countries with social safety nets galore, and all of them seem to have fewer freedoms and fewer small businesses created per capita than the USA.

If this is any indication, the US is certainly not winning that race:

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Micr...

I'm looking for a better source still, so if you find one please post it here.

EDIT: I found this. Numbers are a bit old (2007), but it shows self-employment rate per capita on page 4, which is exactly the metric we're interested in discussing.

https://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/small-business-2...

So, based on those two sources, your assertion seems straight up incorrect.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#519

Post by Retric »

lliamander wrote: post #497
Retric wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parties benefit from ideological inertia. I prefer small government that minimizes spending… So based on recent voting patterns, I vote Democrat.

Neither of the two parties represents anything close to a small-government platform.

I agree. So, the question is if you want lower spending etc, who do you vote for?

It’s not obvious. Take a corporate tax loophole, is that spending and or a form of economic control? Foreign ownership of US companies compounds this, is it giving money to foreigners or good economic policy etc.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#520

Post by MisterBastahrd »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #450
mattwad wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or women's rights, I assume

This is an uncharitable reading. Almost no one would answer that they want the government to impose positions over their personal views on those topics

Except it's accurate. Most conservatives are fair-weather individualists who only care about "liberty" in loose terms as long as the liberty that they believe is being affected is their own.

We had to drag conservatives kicking and screaming over the past 30 years to allow gays to have the right to marry and openly serve in the military, just like we had to drag them kicking and screaming 60 years ago to allow minorities the right to vote, or allow mixed-race couples to marry.

No conservatives lost liberty in any of those instances. They lost their "special" status, which is what they're really worried about and why the populist rhetoric resonates so strongly with them.

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