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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#391

Post by skrtskrt »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #390
skrtskrt wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you're basically echoing my point - the Democratic party at the national level doesn't have the willpower to get pro-worker legislation through. And it's not just because they suck at winning elections, but also because they actively welcome anti-labor candidates into their ranks and crush the more progressive primary challengers even in safe blue districts. Not to mention that the executive branch has the pow…

I do not think I echoed that. I said that Democrats have not had a majority by more than 1 for a long time. That is just numbers, it has nothing to do with willpower. You cannot realistically expect every single party member to toe the line, so effectively, as a party they have to compromise heavily just to get the things through that they have.

It is obviously a matter of willpower.

The Republicans have no problem getting their moderate members to toe the line on their more extreme stuff.

"Moderate" Republican party members would make their statements about "this isn't the way things are done' every time Trump did something crazy, but every single one folded and fell in line, every single time.

If it was the priority of the Democratic national party leadership to get real, actual big legislation done that benefited workers over companies and investors, then they would. They do everything they can to block, blacklist, and crush campaigns of progressive primary challengers. They could do that to the "moderate" members who don't want to pass any legislation at all, if passing that legislation was really a priority.

It's just obviously not something they care about, and it's obvious why.

The party is run by obscenely wealthy members and donors, just like the Republicans are.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#392

Post by VirusNewbie »

8note wrote: post #192
VirusNewbie wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will fight tooth and nail to keep our industry from unionizing. One can simply look at the public school system and how well it performs with one of the strongest unions in the country. You don't have well paid teachers (except those who have been teaching for a long time, at the detriment to new teachers),you don't serve the children well and you now have to navigate both a career and politics of a union. Unions b…

My understanding of the public school system is that administrators and football takes up all the money, and the government will forcefully end teachers strikes. The teachers union is probably the only thing keeping public schools running in a country where a political party explicitly wants them to fail and will sabotage them for political gain

You think in rich states (like california) with liberal, democratic legislation and liberal governors that the political parties are the ones keeping schools from being effective?

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#393

Post by rootusrootus »

ATsch wrote: post #378
Taikonerd wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normally this kind of movement would be a strength of the left. But lately the right has become quite populist, so maybe this plays in their direction. I saw an op-ed from a conservative magazine on this exact theme: [1]. The author basically says, "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" 1: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/republicans...

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality.

I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#394

Post by closeparen »

rootusrootus wrote: post #324
cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

> It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization. I fully expect this to happen. Younger folks today are the unlucky beneficiary of years of wage stagnation and home price inflation. They have every right to be angry, and I think they are collectively starting to realize that they have a lot of power to change the status quo. At the risk of veering into politics, I'm also not sure how this will change th…

Higher wages cannot make it any more possible for N+1 people to have N large plots of land close to the city center.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#395

Post by wutbrodo »

closeparen wrote: post #394
rootusrootus wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization. I fully expect this to happen. Younger folks today are the unlucky beneficiary of years of wage stagnation and home price inflation. They have every right to be angry, and I think they are collectively starting to realize that they have a lot of power to change the status quo. At the risk of veering into politics, I'm also not sure how this will change th…

Higher wages cannot make it any more possible for N+1 people to have N large plots of land close to the city center.

> large plots of land

This assumption that you've smuggled in begs the entire question

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#396

Post by CydeWeys »

closeparen wrote: post #394
rootusrootus wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization. I fully expect this to happen. Younger folks today are the unlucky beneficiary of years of wage stagnation and home price inflation. They have every right to be angry, and I think they are collectively starting to realize that they have a lot of power to change the status quo. At the risk of veering into politics, I'm also not sure how this will change th…

Higher wages cannot make it any more possible for N+1 people to have N large plots of land close to the city center.

People living near city centers are perfectly content with apartment buildings, which have no real upper limit on how many people will fit into a given plot of land.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#397

Post by ATsch »

rootusrootus wrote: post #393
ATsch wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.

I'm not completely sure what you mean, the 2016 votes leaned approximately democrat for 75k like every other election in recent US history, although admittedly by a lower margin than the previous years. In 2020 it seems to have returned to a larger gap again.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#398

Post by ARandomerDude »

rootusrootus wrote: post #393
ATsch wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.

I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens.

I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see it, wants some guarantee of a good outcome. The right wants liberty, recognizing that comes with risk.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#399

Post by jorblumesea »

Taikonerd wrote: post #351
rootusrootus wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization. I fully expect this to happen. Younger folks today are the unlucky beneficiary of years of wage stagnation and home price inflation. They have every right to be angry, and I think they are collectively starting to realize that they have a lot of power to change the status quo. At the risk of veering into politics, I'm also not sure how this will change th…

> Normally this kind of movement would be a strength of the left. But lately the right has become quite populist, so maybe this plays in their direction. I saw an op-ed from a conservative magazine on this exact theme: [1]. The author basically says, "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" 1: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/republicans...

> "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?"

But they don't really mean it and have never meant it. The Republican party, at least in modern history, has never been pro working class in any real sense. The opposite in fact, probably far more hostile to working class than Democrats.

Much of the "pro working class" rhetoric is largely just conservative values like abortion or region. Maybe a better way to phrase it is "pro rural white conservative working class values".

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#400

Post by akhmatova »

cs702 wrote: post #103

A single successful effort of unionization at an Amazon facility is more than symbolic: It will encourage -- and serve as a blueprint for -- employees at other Amazon facilities to do the same. Moreover, it will motivate employees at other large companies to try. This has been brewing for a while. It's possible we'll see a generational wave of unionization.

Yup, that's exactly what this potential success story means.

And is precisely why Amazon fought so fiercely (and underhandedly) to derail a similar effort in Alabama around this time last year.

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