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Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

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Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#61

Post by gnoupi »

Alex3917 wrote: post #56
ugh wrote: post #47

Stallman is as clueless about communication as ever. That’s no way to convince people.

"That’s no way to convince people." Why is convincing people the be-all and end-all of communication? Doesn't just being right count for something? Obviously you need a lot of people who are willing to do the work of convincing folks, but you also need other people who are willing to be right whether it's popular or not. Every book I have ever read on selling change within organizations says that you need to start by…

Unfortunately, when you are right but don't communicate it well, people will tend to discard your truth.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#62

Post by kenjackson »

ugh wrote: post #47

Stallman is as clueless about communication as ever. That’s no way to convince people.

Stallman has never been able to convince people. In fact I've argued his cause is worse off because of him. For as good of a programmer he may be, he seems just as bad at human interaction.

I consider this another fitting tribute. To be despised by Stallman in this way is something to be proud of -- IMO, it means you probably did something right.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#63

Post by ugh »

loumf wrote: post #60
ugh wrote: post #47

Stallman is as clueless about communication as ever. That’s no way to convince people.

I don't think Stallman cares about convincing -- his role is to be an uncompromising extremist, which he does quite well. In any movement, you need people to set the goalpost so far away that others can seem reasonable by comparison. They serve a purpose to the movement, but they themselves risk being ostracized and marginalized. On the facts, I think he's wrong about Jobs -- Apple has done a lot to make it possible…

No, I don’t think Stallman furthers his goals in any way.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#65

Post by mvitti »

I wonder if this guy thinks there is ANY software that is worthy of being purchased or is it all tainted in some way? Has he ever purchased a can of soda, a movie ticket, a laptop computer, etc.? How does he even subsist in our corporate consumerist society without compromising his highly developed sense of right and wrong? I don't know but gathering from his hateful disposition it must not be easy.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#66

Post by burgerbrain »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #21
yesreally wrote: post #15

For those that are kneejerkingly chastising Stallman, understand his point of view. OS X and iOS are not free, and Apple led by Jobs changed the way that people thought about installing Applications on desktop operating systems as something that requires manufacturer approval (App Store), which led the way for others like Intel to make AppUp, etc. This restricts what the user has access to install is more of a setbac…

Someone died though. The polite thing to do would probably be to say nothing at all ...

Why should people be stifled just because somebody died? What exactly are we concerned about? Steve Jobs becoming disgruntled, rising from his grave, and sucking the blood of virgins during the night?

This "dead people are off limits" thing is a relic from the superstitious dark ages. If we can praise the actions of dead people, we can criticize them too.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#67

Post by gnoupi »

RexRollman wrote: post #51
api wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, the market has spoken, and here's why: Only technology monarchism has been able to deliver a good user experience. The organized chaos of OSS has delivered excellent technology but a piss-poor user experience by comparison. I can't imagine using Linux as anything other than a web-netbook without having a thorough understanding of it, and the UI still blows by comparison with anything by Apple. Microsoft's UI…

When it comes to computing, it seems to me that most people would rather have a pretty prison than freedom.

Mostly because freedom is not really accessible for most people, in matter of computing.

You can have freedom to install what you want, the way you want... only a minority ultimately knows how to. The rest is left without a clue in front of their supposed freedom.

When the iPad is presented to people, of course it's no "revolution" to most of us. But for the regular person, it's an easy way to access something which they could have had difficulties to access, before. At this point, choice matters less than the actual possibility to use something, even if this thing is framed and safely guarded, for most.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#68

Post by Alex3917 »

gnoupi wrote: post #61
Alex3917 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That’s no way to convince people." Why is convincing people the be-all and end-all of communication? Doesn't just being right count for something? Obviously you need a lot of people who are willing to do the work of convincing folks, but you also need other people who are willing to be right whether it's popular or not. Every book I have ever read on selling change within organizations says that you need to start by…

Unfortunately, when you are right but don't communicate it well, people will tend to discard your truth.

I personally don't think Stallman is entirely right, but I think he articulates his ideas quite clearly. Anyone who doesn't listen to him because he has a beard or whatever clearly doesn't care about the truth in the first place.

That's not to say that it's not worth convincing people who don't care about the truth, but rather that you need different kinds of people willing to play different kinds of roles in order to create social change. Just because Stallman isn't going to be the guy who convinces the masses doesn't mean that what he's doing (in general) isn't vital to the movement.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#69

Post by burgerbrain »

yesreally wrote: post #32
timmyd wrote: post #26

It's interesting - I question why Stallman felt the need to say anything. Have some respect in death - and even if he chooses to ignorantly portray himself as an arse by continuing to poor criticism on someone 1 day after their death - I put this to you. If Stallmans "dream" of "everythings free" truly prevailed. Most of the technology that we use would never have been invented anyway. The capitalist nature of societ…

The world needs freedom, and the world needs order. Stallman was and is about freedom. Jobs was about order.

Exactly. It is important to note that while RMS does hold himself to his own high standards, he's been on the record numerous times that he doesn't actually expect people to do as he does. He recognizes full well that pragmatism is a factor.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#70

Post by bonch »

marshray wrote: post #53

Oh come on, grow a spine people. Quit whining about 'insensitive'. Just because you die doesn't give you a free pass from criticism for more than about 24 hours, and most people don't even get that much. Stallman is right. Computer-as-a-jail is Jobs' legacy and I too hope it dies with him. vvv Edit vvv Look at it this way: Jobs and Apple did truly amazing things in the usability department. For that they should be ri…

Only kooks consider it a "jail." Millions of mainstream users disagree.
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