Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#31

Post by ramanujan » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 12:39 PM UTC

yesreally wrote: post #15

For those that are kneejerkingly chastising Stallman, understand his point of view. OS X and iOS are not free, and Apple led by Jobs changed the way that people thought about installing Applications on desktop operating systems as something that requires manufacturer approval (App Store), which led the way for others like Intel to make AppUp, etc. This restricts what the user has access to install is more of a setbac…

Look, all respect to Stallman for writing Emacs and the GNU toolchain. Among technologists he's clearly one of the few figures on par with Jobs. Indeed, he's also personally a difficult figure and a bit of a totalitarian about his craft, much like Jobs himself. [Though I don't think Jobs would ever publicly emit something like Stallman's "eulogy".]

Where Stallman falls short is in supposing that open, hackable systems are an unmitigated good. "Just works" and "highly configurable" are often antonyms, rather than synonyms.

Should open, hackable systems always exist or be developed as a check on Tivoization? Yes. Are they ever going to get a dominant market share, in the sense that the masses making voluntary decisions will choose Free software/hardware? No.

  more of a setback for the free software movement than 
  anything Microsoft ever did.

No.

iOS exists because it can make tons of money to pay back its development costs. Android exists for the same reason.

And at some point, a true mobile/touch Linux (perhaps a fork of Android) will also exist, and the free knockoff will owe a great deal to the hundreds of billions in dollars in capital plant installed worldwide by the for-profit, closed originals.

Indeed, Linux itself exists because of the fact that AT&T could make a profit off Unix, and that IBM could make money off selling computers.

So: iOS is not a setback for the free software movement. In the long term it's a massive boost in the arm.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#32

Post by yesreally » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 12:40 PM UTC

timmyd wrote: post #26

It's interesting - I question why Stallman felt the need to say anything. Have some respect in death - and even if he chooses to ignorantly portray himself as an arse by continuing to poor criticism on someone 1 day after their death - I put this to you. If Stallmans "dream" of "everythings free" truly prevailed. Most of the technology that we use would never have been invented anyway. The capitalist nature of societ…

The world needs freedom, and the world needs order. Stallman was and is about freedom. Jobs was about order.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#33

Post by flarg » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 1:01 PM UTC

Stallman is consistent and vastly intelligent and whilst his comments can be seen as insensitive he is quite correct that Steve Jobs did suppress software freedom.

We don't go to Stallman for sensitivity (you're a dolt if you do), we go to him for the truth, no matter how painful. We can all do with that sometimes - http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/10/06/steve-jobs-succumbs-to...

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#34

Post by Udo » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 1:06 PM UTC

smoyer wrote: post #16

The last straw ... Good-bye Mr. Stallman - we may not agree but I won't spit on your grave. And I'll continue making money from closed source software and contributing to open source communities whether or not you approve.

I agree, what an asshole. Saying that the world will be a better place after someone dies should be reserved for mass murderers and lobbyists - it's a harsh and inappropriate statement about a leading industry figure, whether you agree with that figure or not.

For example, I violently disagree with RMS on a lot of things, but I still believe he is a visionary, and Open Source is a valuable concept that will always be an important part of my life. And I won't be "glad he's gone" when his time comes. Too bad he can't do exactly that for Steve Jobs and give the man some respect. What he displays here is nothing but irrational hate, a mean and low move on RMSs part.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#35

Post by rsanchez1 » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 1:19 PM UTC

Interesting, the first guy not gushing over Jobs and hastily putting together a tribute is Stallman.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#36

Post by pmclanahan » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 1:47 PM UTC

Udo wrote: post #34

smoyer wrote: post #16

The last straw ... Good-bye Mr. Stallman - we may not agree but I won't spit on your grave. And I'll continue making money from closed source software and contributing to open source communities whether or not you approve.

I agree, what an asshole. Saying that the world will be a better place after someone dies should be reserved for mass murderers and lobbyists - it's a harsh and inappropriate statement about a leading industry figure, whether you agree with that figure or not. For example, I violently disagree with RMS on a lot of things, but I still believe he is a visionary, and Open Source is a valuable concept that will always be…

I'm glad you called it "Open Source"; RMS hates that :)

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#37

Post by llambda » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 1:51 PM UTC

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #21

yesreally wrote: post #15

For those that are kneejerkingly chastising Stallman, understand his point of view. OS X and iOS are not free, and Apple led by Jobs changed the way that people thought about installing Applications on desktop operating systems as something that requires manufacturer approval (App Store), which led the way for others like Intel to make AppUp, etc. This restricts what the user has access to install is more of a setbac…

Someone died though. The polite thing to do would probably be to say nothing at all ...

This is just it. Implying the world is better off without Jobs or what Jobs did (however you want to slice that part of his comment) is insensitive beyond measure: someone is dead. Show a little respect if for nothing else than the fact he was a fellow human being, be him your greatest enemy or your dearest friend, where is the fucking humanity? Better to have said nothing at all than to make such a distasteful post.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#38

Post by k-mcgrady » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 1:54 PM UTC

Greg12x wrote: post #30

k-mcgrady wrote: post #8

I always thought he was a bit of an a-hole but this is very disrespectful.

IMO I agree with him.

I don't have any problems with his beliefs, he can believe what he wants. But publishing that 1 day after Jobs death is disrespectful. Better to just not say anything.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#39

Post by rdouble » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 2:00 PM UTC

Did anyone expect him to say something different?

It's the first time I've seen his political blog. I'm always disheartened when I find out guys who used to do cool stuff now just spend their days tweeting or blogging about politics. It's like visiting your grandpa who used to do woodworking and finding out he now just watches Fox News all day.

Re: Richard Stallman on Steve Jobs

#40

Post by lucasagomes » Fri, Oct 07, 2011, 2:06 PM UTC

akshay_surve wrote: post #2

Copy pasted from the page for convenience: Steve Jobs, the pioneer of the computer as a jail made cool, designed to sever fools from their freedom, has died. As Chicago Mayor Harold Washington said of the corrupt former Mayor Daley, "I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone." Nobody deserves to have to die - not Jobs, not Mr. Bill, not even people guilty of bigger evils than theirs. But we all deserve the end o…

Nice words... He was a bad influence in computing world, He did innovate somethings but mostly he did was copy. Instead of focus in real innovation Apple was suing other companies for having rectangular devices (ref: https://plus.google.com/111531118192938544384/posts/DKgter1R...)... R.I.P Steve, you're better there than here.