I hate what video games have become • Hacker News Board

Re: I hate what video games have become

#361

Post by dkersten » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #163

OtomotO wrote: post #151

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

I disagree. There are ways to do it in which it's obvious where the business model is, and it isn't too forceful or gambling. The World of Tanks/Battleships/Warplanes series, are free to play, with progression through experience ( you unlock higher level machines based on xp points you accumulate through playing and success at it), or through paying to go up the ladder faster or unlock special machines. You can play…

The problem I have with these games is they are almost universally tuned to make them very time consuming and grindy if you don't pay.

That is, instead of the game being balanced for what feels good to play, they are balanced so that they feel good when you pay more and otherwise are not so annoying that you quit, but annoying enough to push you to pay.

Its not: here's a good game, but you can buy these things with real money. Its: here's a game that we purposely made a bit too time consuming and annoying, but you can buy these "time savers" to make it be fun all the time instead. Any game that sells real-money "time savers" is by definition a badly balanced game. The solution to a badly balanced game that becomes tedious is not to sell "time savers" (or skips: "buy the tank now and skip the grind for it"), its to rebalance the game to remove or reduce the tedium.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#362

Post by kgwxd » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

I've played a ridiculous amount of Rocket League. "30 minutes per day were more than enough to get all the wardrobe" is just not true. Keys and locked loot boxes were in the game years ago, it was terrible, it was taken out well before it went FTP. Now, every seasons has free stuff, a few of them are random, and random blueprint drops after matches that can be unlocked with credits, but you know exactly what you're buying. There's a "Rocket Pass" which gets you a lot more stuff including exactly enough credits to buy the next season pass with, but nothing in the Rocket Pass is random and it doesn't get you any more chances at random stuff. You can't buy the random stuff anymore, on purpose.

I buy the pass every season, even though I've been wearing the same things for years, because I can afford it, and would like to see the game (more specifically, the servers) live forever.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#363

Post by jimmyjazz14 » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

Over the last few years I have gotten hundred of hours of enjoyment from games like League of Legends, Valorant and Halo Infinite and couldn't even tell you how to spend money on those games if I wanted to. I honestly doubt I would have ever picked up any of those games if they were not free and I'm guessing since many other would say the same thing the lobbies would be empty and the games would die. In those case the free model is great and I don't feel like there is any loss for someone not wanting to spend money on them.

I think those cases are different than the mobile app style which makes no sense to me since many of the games are single player so nobody will see the skins or whatever anyway.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#364

Post by AlexandrB » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

999900000999 wrote: post #338

flohofwoe wrote: post #186

This is just a self-inflicted bubble problem. There are now so many interesting games without any dark patterns on Steam alone that one can spend an entire lifetime playing awesome games without ever encountering a single loot box, just step a bit outside the AAA and mobile bubbles.

I agree 100%. Kena Bridge of Spirits and Tony Hawk 1 + 2 HD are amazing games and have no DLC. It's a very complicated problem to solve, on some level adults have the freedom to be self-destructive. In another business case, dating apps are known to knowingly allow fake profiles to roam to encourage people to subscribe. And even after that, you have various freemium add-ons. Between this, and a very scary experience,…

> I think a good compromise would be to restrict games with free to play mechanics to adults, as in if you're not at least 18 you're not allowed to play games with loot boxes. Once you're an adult, gambling is fine.

Yes. As it stands many of these games are simply an end-run around gambling laws. It would be nice if games with these mechanics were clearly labelled (ESRB is showing its conflict of interest here) and rated 18+.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#365

Post by Karawebnetwork » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:20 PM UTC

jimmyjazz14 wrote: post #363

Over the last few years I have gotten hundred of hours of enjoyment from games like League of Legends, Valorant and Halo Infinite and couldn't even tell you how to spend money on those games if I wanted to. I honestly doubt I would have ever picked up any of those games if they were not free and I'm guessing since many other would say the same thing the lobbies would be empty and the games would die. In those case th…

"Laurey LoL statistics indicate players spend an average of $92 a year on the game."

Re: I hate what video games have become

#366

Post by wellthisisgreat » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

saturdaysaint wrote: post #328

I play Fall Guys and Warzone, both of which offer cosmetic modifications that are unlockable both through gameplay and by purchasing them. IMO, the cosmetics are little more than flair that add a little bit of fun and personal expression to the experience. Along with the "Battle Pass" model, where users are rewarded for regular play during content "Seasons", these mini-economies incentivize people to play regularly (…

Yeah the Rambo skin was worth $10 and it added to the experience. I don’t mind paying extra for it.

However Warzone is a prime example of cosmetics affecting the game - remember any of the scandals (DMR-gate of Dec 2020), when the desire to sell weapon blueprints / Battle Pass pushes the designers overpower the new weapons. It’s subtle but very toxic. Or the Roze skin. Even if that one wasn’t intentional they can’t change/remove it now because people paid for it.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#367

Post by thoughtpalette » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

tjader wrote: post #309

somedude895 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with Rocket League microtransactions are a bad idea. It incentivizes the developer to make attaining items through gameplay a slog in order to get you to skip that by paying up. If there was no way to get those items through mtx, they'd make the process of getting them fun. Also, games are supposed to be a form of escapism, where the gameplay matters, not who you are and how much money your parents make. You can…

Anectdata: I have over 2000 hours of Rocket League, never once spent any money on it after purchasing it and never one have I felt that my fun was impacted by the available microtransactions. Nothing that can be purchased in the game affects gameplay, it's all just cosmetics.

Feel the same at 3k+ hours and 4x GC.

The biggest issue I have with free to play is there's virtually no barrier for smurf accounts.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#368

Post by wellthisisgreat » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #169

soultrees wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question out of curiosity - what do you get out spending that much on a game? I’ve heard some whales spending 10-20k a week and that’s probably not even the highest. Do you get genuine enjoyment out of it or do you ever feel fleeced at all?

It depends on what kind of loot box. For cosmetics it's pretty random. When the game itself feels stale I want a new outfit to make it feel fresh. For P2W it's a treat after I've been grinding freemium for a while. It's like opening a beer on Friday after work. I don't spend 10-20k a week but I do occasionally spend that amount on one game during its whole lifetime. However, that also means I've gotten thousands of h…

The beer on Friday metaphor resonates with me (even though I don’t drink beer), that’s how I perceive buying in game items. Out of curiosity which game(s) did you spend 10-20k on?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#369

Post by honkdaddy » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

qwery wrote: post #211

dado3212 wrote: post #7

I have basically the opposite opinion of this article. I often hold up Rocket League as an example of a great free-to-play game. 1) You 100% can unlock a lot of cosmetic items through free play. 2) The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals. For the same reason that people wear nice clothes in real life, why are you surprised that some people want to look cool in a video game? A…

The whole 'preying on the vulnerable' thing kind of puts me off. But I want to respond to this: > The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals Cosmetic items are not just visual though. They are real elements in the game. Cosmetic items are interactive. They are unlockable, collectable, wearable items. Further, visuals do impact the gameplay. You could argue about the difference b…

>Monetisation strategies like microtransactions, loot boxes, etc. are also part of the game. However, the goal of such parts is not aligned with that of the others. The game is compromised by the introduction of the monetisation strategies.

This is an interesting point. I think it begs the question, what _is_ the goal of a game? 10 years ago I would have said that broadly, the goal of a video game is to create an experience the player will enjoy. Perhaps now it's more simple though, maybe the goal of the vast majority of games today is to create a model in which money is willingly transferred from the player to the publisher.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#370

Post by jesusofnazarath » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #341

telchior wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair criticism, but one that is only relevant in the first place because of freemium. Prior to that business model, there was no such thing as a company continuing to provide regular, ongoing support to a 7 year old game of the non-subscription variety. I mean, how or why would they? You release something; it makes 90% of its lifetime revenue in year 1; if you continue working on it for 6 more years, you're out of bu…

> Along come NFTs, with potential permanent ownership... but gamers despise that idea, too. Permanent ownership of what ? If the game servers shut down or you get banned[1] for some reason your permanent ownership is meaningless. Also how are NFTs different than the existing systems like the Steam marketplace in terms of functionality? [1] Oh yeah, NFTs require you to have an online account for the game. I would argu…

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