I hate what video games have become • Hacker News Board

Re: I hate what video games have become

#151

Post by OtomotO » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 6:59 AM UTC

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me.

The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest.

The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me.

Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictions need to eat too... Or buy a lambo, or two.

I don't care whether it's only cosmetic or not, I have and will never support that business model

Re: I hate what video games have become

#152

Post by collaborative » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:02 AM UTC

thot_experiment wrote: post #107

JKCalhoun wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, people blame the developers, blame the publishers, but I think the sad truth is, gamers themselves shoulder much of the blame. Somehow the public came to believe that everything should be free. Maybe it was the internet? Maybe it was sites/apps like Facebook? Regardless, when a great piece of software that happens to have a price tag fails to sell, whose fault is that? Don't blame developers/publishers for goin…

Artificial scarcity is bad, actually. Things that don't cost money to duplicate should be free, we need UBI and maybe a general shift to patronage-based models, luckily this is starting to happen. There are also plenty of games that implement a cometic lootboxes that don't impact gameplay model that are totally fine.

This would lead to a society where there is no incentive to create any new digital goods.

The patronage "platform" would be the new Apple/Google and would likely be riddled with corruption

Re: I hate what video games have become

#153

Post by peterashford » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:08 AM UTC

robin_reala wrote: post #146

telchior wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair criticism, but one that is only relevant in the first place because of freemium. Prior to that business model, there was no such thing as a company continuing to provide regular, ongoing support to a 7 year old game of the non-subscription variety. I mean, how or why would they? You release something; it makes 90% of its lifetime revenue in year 1; if you continue working on it for 6 more years, you're out of bu…

No Man’s Sky has been getting 6 years of updates purely out of a wounded sense of pride.

I was very critical of No Man's Sky on release, but boy have they knocked it out of the park since. Super impressive piece of work

Re: I hate what video games have become

#154

Post by Kiro » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:15 AM UTC

holler wrote: post #66

dado3212 wrote: post #7

I have basically the opposite opinion of this article. I often hold up Rocket League as an example of a great free-to-play game. 1) You 100% can unlock a lot of cosmetic items through free play. 2) The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals. For the same reason that people wear nice clothes in real life, why are you surprised that some people want to look cool in a video game? A…

One complaint I've had with RL recently is that it seems like they've put all their energy into new visuals and cosmetics while leaving the game mostly unchanged. The standard multi ranked map sometimes feels boring and I've wondered why they don't add different types of maps to the mix; spheres, tubes, different physics, goals in the center, figure 8 map(?), embankments (like map in season 1), etc. I guess it's simp…

That's like saying they should change the rules of football. Rocket League is a seriously competitive game and even the slightest change to the physics would have a big impact. I like that they have kept the core gameplay intact. It's beautiful and pure.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#155

Post by Kiro » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:17 AM UTC

OtomotO wrote: post #151

As a (non game) developer, I can say, thay free to play is instantly dead on arrival for me. The moment something is known to become or becomes free to play is the moment I lose all interest. The dishonesty in the system itself is what makes this unbearable for me. Developers need to eat, Managers need to eat, Marketeers need to eat... And sometimes psychologists doing evil mindtricks and supporting gambling addictio…

Good thing they have whales like me who will spend 100x of what you would have paid. They don't need you when they can milk me.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#156

Post by Kiro » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:19 AM UTC

amatecha wrote: post #149

This seems like a good time to mention this site DarkPattern.games[0] which lists mobile games that utilize such things as loot boxes, etc. and actually has quite some granularity over the different types of mechanics and how that game rates for those. For example, games which force you to wait some duration of time before being able to proceed, or force you to watch an ad, or other things like that. "A gaming dark p…

I don't like how some of my favorite mechanics (grinding, guilds) are listed as dark patterns.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#157

Post by tsujp » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:21 AM UTC

I hate lootboxes that paywall actual gameplay content; however the ones the author is complaining about are PURELY COSMETIC. There isn't a faster, more powerful car that is earnable via lootbox exclusively. The only things Rocket League gives you via lootboxes (as the author also knows and states) are the livery, hats etc. None of these make your car faster, make it more nimble, or give you any advantage over another player.

Also, $20 for 2,000 hours of entertainment is a pretty good deal right? Go to see a movie and that's about $20 for 1.5 - 2.5 hours entertainment.

I suppose after your purchase the company running and developing Rocket League who hire real people to work on the game, who host servers to facilitate the multiplayer experience are expected to run until bankruptcy?

The part about targeting lootboxes towards children (cosmetic only or not) is valid though because (cosmetic or not) that, to a child, helps develop gambling addiction or tendencies. However, for adults cosmetic-only lootboxes are fine and a perfectly reasonable strategy to ensure you can support a game in the long term for people who are entitled enough to think a one-time $20 purchase means someone has to host them a server, and employ a development team for at least 2,000 hours of gameplay.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#158

Post by Kiro » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:22 AM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #122

tyrfing wrote: post #53

It's a great business model for multiplayer games. They live and die on the basis of network effects, and gating access behind a $25-60 upfront payment means most games die from gradual attrition - which is just sad to watch happen when it's an enjoyable but niche game. Subscriptions are dead, with even Blizzard struggling to make it work, and most DLC models just don't work for multiplayer. Looking at my Steam libra…

It's a business model that works off of whales. It's predatory and exploits the same people that gambling does.

I'm a whale and I don't feel exploited. I don't like gambling but I like buying chests. People spending money on trips or cars, things I have no interest in, are also exploited in that case.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#159

Post by legalcorrection » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:24 AM UTC

tomatowurst wrote: post #115

dado3212 wrote: post #7

I have basically the opposite opinion of this article. I often hold up Rocket League as an example of a great free-to-play game. 1) You 100% can unlock a lot of cosmetic items through free play. 2) The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals. For the same reason that people wear nice clothes in real life, why are you surprised that some people want to look cool in a video game? A…

it's also super hard to build a great f2p and i think CSGO easily is the best. they bootstrapped it for almost 2 decades from a mod made by Minh Le to what it is today and I must say it is the only f2p game I regularly play. simply because it actually pays to play. I've made about $20 bucks this month from just selling cases given out randomly at the end of each match. It cost me nothing to buy yet the in game items…

As someone who once played a lot of counter strike, this comment is baffling. How about the part of the game where you try to shoot the people on the other team? Is that part fun or are you just in it for the casino mechanics?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#160

Post by bambax » Mon, Mar 28, 2022, 7:25 AM UTC

> once you stop playing a game 100% of the money you spend on it disappears, you can’t recover any of it, not 50%, not 20%, just nothing (...) Can you imagine if other art mediums were this ridiculous?

Well, we're getting there. Streaming services, and all subscription offerings, are systems where you don't own anything, and you lose everything the moment you stop paying.