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I hate what video games have become

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Re: I hate what video games have become

#321

Post by jeegsy »

rockbruno wrote: post #276
sidlls wrote: post #25

Video games are like this because people pay for it. It didn’t start like this. Back when packaged games (i.e. shrink-wrapped cd/dvd cases) were the way games were delivered we had “online” modes that generally cost a fixed amount (including $0) to access. Then someone would experiment with something like a power up or level up for some tiny cost, or a “bundle” of them, etc. and guess what: the market overwhelmingly…

>Video games are like this because people pay for it. I hate this argument because it implies you have any power in this situation. They don't do this because the majority likes it, they do it because there's a select group of whales that are willing to spend ungodly amounts of money on this crap. They're the ones who dictate how these games operate and no amount of "vote with your wallet" would change it.

> I hate this argument because it implies you have any power in this situation.

Yes you do. While there is little we actually control in our complex world, we are at least in control of our discretionary purchasing decisions. Sure, you as an individual might not make a dent in the company's profits but thats not the point. You are making a decision on principle, thats all that matters.

If we cant get this part right, what hope do we have for more important stuff like voting in actual elections?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#322

Post by pmarreck »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #102
pmarreck wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 424 Steam games and not a single one is a freemium game, funny how that works

^ I can’t speak for which 424 games you have in your library, but careful with the terminology—there are (sadly) lots of paid games with microtransactions and dark patterns.

I get that. I detect it and I consciously don't participate in it. If you understand and recognize the dark pattern, you can opt-out.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#323

Post by pmarreck »

fifticon wrote: post #263
pmarreck wrote: post #12

Yeah, I just avoid sucky games that do shit like that. You should too. Those "video games have become" apparently the ones you chose to play and not the ones you didn't choose to play...

Not always true. Minecraft started out as a great game, and parts of it still is, but Microsoft bought it up and is busy stuffing it full of crap.

Why do people blame Minecraft for this and not Microsoft? Microsoft has been pulling these sorts of quasi-ethical moves for decades now

Re: I hate what video games have become

#324

Post by incomingpain »

Video game industry was slow at this approach and there was significant push back on all these things. Pay to win vs drm vs gamergate stuff. The industry didn't care at all about any of the push back.

It's actually interesting to see how much the gaming industry doesn't give 2 squats about what online chat says. The gaming industry has dealt with online chat since basically forever. I remember counterstrike 1.5 pre-steam in the early 2000s and learning all kinds of new pejoratives. Gaming industry understood that the 12 year old edgy angsty teens are going to say all kinds of idiotic stuff. I am guilty of this indictment for when I was 12.

This is something a ton of other industries have not learnt yet. These other industries are looking at what is being said online and are responding like they need to take those opinions as truth.

Then again that's also why Elon Musk is mocking Netflix: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1503287788652871680

1 million likes and 150,000 retweets because he's not wrong.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#325

Post by bpicolo »

wink wrote: post #221
wodenokoto wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super Mario Run, on top of being a great game at a great price is basically single payment f2p. And most people didn’t get that you could buy it and not worry about needing to buy berries or diamonds for real world money. Not worry about your child spending hundreds of real world dollars when playing on your phone. People just hated the fact that they had to pay for the cheapest priced Mario game ever.

It's based on the platform. Nobody would've bat an eye at a Switch or PC game for an upfront cost, but asking 10$ for a mobile game was kinda unheard of. I think they misjudged the market response there. I can't say I'm not biased here, I basically hate 95% of all the mobile games I ever tried, or at least stopped playing after an hour - so a 10$ purchase for me would simply never happen, because I don't like the pla…

> but asking 10$ for a mobile game was kinda unheard of

Kind of crazy that the whole market was defined by shovelware

Re: I hate what video games have become

#326

Post by legalcorrection »

Kiro wrote: post #172
legalcorrection wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like bragging about being in the demographic that keeps celebrity gossip tabloids afloat. Do you also lose a lot of money on MLM schemes? Are Vegas casinos comping week-long stays for you?

I'm not into MLM schemes (or gambling) but I do love celebrity gossip. Since apparently you get to decide what interests are cool or not, I would love to hear what kind of amazing things you are into!

Mostly telling people on the internet that they are wrong.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#327

Post by xboxnolifes »

holler wrote: post #66
dado3212 wrote: post #7

I have basically the opposite opinion of this article. I often hold up Rocket League as an example of a great free-to-play game. 1) You 100% can unlock a lot of cosmetic items through free play. 2) The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals. For the same reason that people wear nice clothes in real life, why are you surprised that some people want to look cool in a video game? A…

One complaint I've had with RL recently is that it seems like they've put all their energy into new visuals and cosmetics while leaving the game mostly unchanged. The standard multi ranked map sometimes feels boring and I've wondered why they don't add different types of maps to the mix; spheres, tubes, different physics, goals in the center, figure 8 map(?), embankments (like map in season 1), etc. I guess it's simp…

> The standard multi ranked map sometimes feels boring and I've wondered why they don't add different types of maps to the mix; spheres, tubes, different physics, goals in the center, figure 8 map(?), embankments (like map in season 1), etc.

They tried. Wasteland, Neo Tokyo, and Starbase ARC were non-standard maps. Players complained about it, and now they are changed to be standard.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#328

Post by saturdaysaint »

I play Fall Guys and Warzone, both of which offer cosmetic modifications that are unlockable both through gameplay and by purchasing them. IMO, the cosmetics are little more than flair that add a little bit of fun and personal expression to the experience. Along with the "Battle Pass" model, where users are rewarded for regular play during content "Seasons", these mini-economies incentivize people to play regularly (which improves multiplayer games on a lot of levels) and incentivize the developers to continually add content. People that get these cosmetics enjoy having a distinctive profile in a social experience they spend a lot of time in and subsidize gamers that enjoy robust free experiences (e.g. kids/teens who provide a lot of excellent competition). It's all a win-win-win-win in my book.

I'm 41 years old and have fond memories of the old days of packaged buy-once games, but the modern battle pass/cosmetic standard seems like a much more realistic way of having a consistently updated experience with strong engagement year-round.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#329

Post by sidlls »

bccdee wrote: post #43
sidlls wrote: post #25

Video games are like this because people pay for it. It didn’t start like this. Back when packaged games (i.e. shrink-wrapped cd/dvd cases) were the way games were delivered we had “online” modes that generally cost a fixed amount (including $0) to access. Then someone would experiment with something like a power up or level up for some tiny cost, or a “bundle” of them, etc. and guess what: the market overwhelmingly…

Actually there's a strong power law going on with microtransactions. Most players don't spend any money at all on them; some spend a couple bucks on an item or two. The model becomes profitable because of the top 1% of spenders — "whales," in industry parlance — some of whom have deeply unhealthy relationships to the gambling mechanics and social pressures underlying microtransaction economies. So it's not exactly tr…

Whales are outsized in many games, but non-whales contribute substantially to this model.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#330

Post by sidlls »

mrjangles wrote: post #98
bccdee wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there's a strong power law going on with microtransactions. Most players don't spend any money at all on them; some spend a couple bucks on an item or two. The model becomes profitable because of the top 1% of spenders — "whales," in industry parlance — some of whom have deeply unhealthy relationships to the gambling mechanics and social pressures underlying microtransaction economies. So it's not exactly tr…

It sounds to me like what you are saying is that developers have discovered it is best to offer an amazing free product to the whole world in order to get them involved in the game, and then this attracts rich people, who then go ahead and pay for the whole things themselves. But if you don't attract the little guy with free stuff, you don't get a great game, and so you don't attract the rich people. Seems like a goo…

Hardly. The whales are not always rich: often they’re just addict-type personalities who are extremely irresponsible with their money.

It’s not a healthy business model for consumers, but ever since I saw the start of this industry trend I’ve come to view consumers of it (in aggregate) as being of poor judgement if not outright stupid. So they kind of reap what they sew, and the rest of us must work harder to find quality. Just like in everything else really.

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