37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home • Hacker News Board

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#321

Post by gwbas1c » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 7:55 PM UTC

I've been remote by necessity for 8 years, since 2014.

I'd prefer to be in the office most days; but the realities of life would make it difficult for my wife and I to both have careers and be parents. If either of us had a rigid "be in the office Monday - Friday" job, the other would need to cut back to part time just to care for our young children.

What I've observed: In software, a company that wants you to be on-site Monday - Friday has control issues. Limiting your workforce to people who live within a reasonable commute who are single / single career couples / childless couples just makes it hard to hire.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#322

Post by thaumasiotes » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 7:55 PM UTC

30367286 wrote: post #219

lamontcg wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hybrid is a sufficient compromise. No it isn't.

What is a sufficient compromise, in your view, that satisfies the need of some workers to have regular face to face interactions with coworkers and prevents corporations unprepared to manage a remote team from whipping back to full in-office? I do not want to put words in your mouth, but since you offered so few of them, I am tempted to believe you are one of the few lucky workers who has sufficient leverage to whole…

> What is a sufficient compromise, in your view, that satisfies the need of some workers to have regular face to face interactions with coworkers

Let them get their interactions from people who want to have them.

What's a sufficient compromise between the need of some men to have sex with women and the desire of some women not to have sex with those men?

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#323

Post by jjav » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

silisili wrote: post #95

stevenhubertron wrote: post #63

I don’t hate working in an office. I hate working in an “open plan” office where someone is always interrupting my work.

Same. Seems not too long before people started really hating offices, offices started being designed to make you hate them. Open offices, no walls, 'island concept' which sounds all fun and tropical until you learn it just means you no longer even have your own desk. If companies want people back in offices, make them enticing. Have perks! Imagine everyone getting their own room, with a nice desk and maybe small couc…

> offices started being designed to make you hate them

Indeed. I didn't mind at all going to the office the first many years of my career, where I always had a private office with a closing door.

But with open offices, I'll do everything I can to never be there.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#324

Post by isoos » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

stevenhubertron wrote: post #50

TimPC wrote: post #38

The coding used by this survey is a joke. If 40% of an occupation says they work outdoors that's below 50% so it's bucketed into the work from home category on that criterion. I think if even 20% of a job is saying they work outdoors that's pretty strong evidence you're missing some information about what the other 80% are doing in their job that prevents it from being a work from home job. The net result of their se…

Couldn’t the job still be performed at home with the occasional on site? I’m thinking of a construction PM. The job could mainly be done at home other then when needed to meet GC on site. Seems like there is still WFH no?

> I’m thinking of a construction PM.

The construction we've seen recently had a PM, and they were on the site about 20-25% of the time. Parts of their job can be and should be done in an office (or from home), but I can't imagine that they wouldn't visit the site regularly while keeping the quality and the schedule goals...

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#325

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #321

I've been remote by necessity for 8 years, since 2014. I'd prefer to be in the office most days; but the realities of life would make it difficult for my wife and I to both have careers and be parents. If either of us had a rigid "be in the office Monday - Friday" job, the other would need to cut back to part time just to care for our young children. What I've observed: In software, a company that wants you to be on-…

[deleted]

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#326

Post by rebeccaskinner » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

vgel wrote: post #279

rebeccaskinner wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are viewing remote work through the particular circumstance of the pandemic. Remote work before covid was very different, and I expect in time we'll get back to a lot of that. I worked remotely before the pandemic, and most days I still have ample opportunities to meet and talk to people. Most weeks I'd attend a meetup (I'm in a small city in the midwest and we still had plenty of events to cater to most any nich…

Thanks for these comments -- this one and your reply to vkou. I started working out of college during the pandemic, and my current gig is remote-native, so I've been kind of dooming about remote work. This is some great advice for how to get past that + a good reminder that COVID is still affecting things -- I've been going with my partner to a board game group and swing classes, but the activation energy is definite…

I'll admit it's pretty hard to replace the in-person events. I am in some slack and discord communities, and I've done a couple of online conferences. I really used to enjoy presenting at meetups and was very upset to have had to turn down an invitation to an in-person conference this fall because of covid. Virtual talks and meetups aren't really the same, but they are what I've made do with in the short term.

I'm not much for traditional online games, but I know some friends who have used that as a more natural way to do online socializing. I've done some online D&D and have found that is better than other kinds of online meetups for socializing, because it gives you enough space to have conversations and chat, but still gives you enough of a focus and it just feels less exhausting than other kinds of online meetups- the tools are really good these days too.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#327

Post by marcosdumay » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

tharkun__ wrote: post #225

closeparen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't particularly enjoy the forced, stilted chatter but I do get a lot of value from: a) Being obliged to put on clothes and leave the house. b) Spending a large part of the day at a change of scenery. c) Having other people there, around, ambiently. Spending 23 hours a day alone in your room + 1 hour for outdoor exercise, with occasional weekend visitation, is among the worst punishments the state has at its disp…

Don't mix up pandemic restrictions with 100% remote work from home. I put on clothes every day. I only wear a nice t-shirt though and otherwise wear my 'at home pants' that I would also put on as soon as I'd come home from the office. My nice pants last much longer now. I really don't like the office scenery very much. I also do not like the scenery in between, i.e. a huge city that has no greenery, the commute is eq…

I do like my path to work. In fact, I go there once in a while, and come back just to get a long walk.

I do like my previous office. It happens that I had to improve my home when I got here, but after spending around 1/5 of my monthly salary, my home is now even a it more comfortable and I use it when not working too. If you have a minimum of space, that's quite doable, and if you don't, why don't you want to move into a cheaper place?

Even those reasons don't add up to much.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#328

Post by closeparen » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

grardb wrote: post #234

30367286 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a sufficient compromise, in your view, that satisfies the need of some workers to have regular face to face interactions with coworkers and prevents corporations unprepared to manage a remote team from whipping back to full in-office? I do not want to put words in your mouth, but since you offered so few of them, I am tempted to believe you are one of the few lucky workers who has sufficient leverage to whole…

Assuming the word "hybrid" is being used to mean that an individual employee has to go into the office for at least some amount of time per week/month/whatever: Here's the issue I have with the main argument I see against remote work, or rather the main argument I see in favor of forcing people to commute to an office ("satisfies the need of some workers to have regular face to face interactions with coworkers"): I w…

I would be happy to socialize only with people who opt in. That’s how it is already, no one forced you to go to the lunch table or tag along for drinks.

To the extent that we collaborate on work, though, having to Zoom with you instead of having a normal free-flowing conversation forms an imposition on me. It becomes an extreme imposition when I am also prohibited from having normal free flowing conversations with other people in the office, out of a sense of “inclusivity” or “leveling the playing field” for you.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#329

Post by etskinner » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 8:11 PM UTC

jleyank wrote: post #98

This seems low as only jobs that require(!) F2F interaction with customers or coworkers can't be done remotely. This might come down to "mucking about with the hardware" being the dividing line - if you need the car, it's in the shop, otherwise you can do in on the road, via the Web, ... Psychologically, companies and (older? extroverted?) workers won't agree with this, but it's not up to them to change. Change happe…

You're right about the dividing line being mucking with hardware (I'd also add 'requires access to large or expensive equipment'). But there are plenty of jobs that don't require face-to-face interaction but do require on-site work for one reason or another. Air traffic control, janitors, machinists, garbage collectors, geologists, bakers, etc.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#330

Post by marcosdumay » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 8:11 PM UTC

dtx1 wrote: post #238

ethbr0 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd spin this around and cast it as a challenge -- regular, forced interactions with coworkers is minimally sufficient and retards some people from pursuing social activities outside the home. There are already a number of options in even the smallest town. I expect that will increase as more people move to WFH and seek social outlets. And at the end of the day "interacting with coworkers in the break room" is a pret…

> I'd spin this around and cast it as a challenge -- regular, forced interactions with coworkers is minimally sufficient and retards some people from pursuing social activities outside the home. Or,it allows people with social anxiety or depression a room for social interactions with very well defined rules and in an environment where people generally interact positively with you. I like the convenience of WFH too bu…

> I like the convenience of WFH too but I do miss cooking with my colleagues and their families on Wednesdays.

Well, to fix that you can go cook with your colleagues and their families on Wednesdays.