37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home • Hacker News Board

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#121

Post by ethbr0 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

Adraghast wrote: post #100

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

> I assume that some people are just very lonely and need face to face Anecdata from Hacker News suggests this is true. A lot of lonely young men here freely admit their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person, and remote work takes that away from them.

I'd spin this around and cast it as a challenge -- regular, forced interactions with coworkers is minimally sufficient and retards some people from pursuing social activities outside the home.

There are already a number of options in even the smallest town. I expect that will increase as more people move to WFH and seek social outlets.

And at the end of the day "interacting with coworkers in the break room" is a pretty low quality bar for an alternative to surmount. Maybe your work conversations are more fascinating than mine, but I get more value elsewhere.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#122

Post by WYepQ4dNnG » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

Adraghast wrote: post #100

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

> I assume that some people are just very lonely and need face to face Anecdata from Hacker News suggests this is true. A lot of lonely young men here freely admit their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person, and remote work takes that away from them.

That's true, but also very sad. I am lucky enough to have a lovely wife, kids and just enough good friends. And that's all I care about.

I don't really miss at all the office, let alone my co-workers. Working remote is just what I need, and I am way more productive.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#123

Post by nluken » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

Adraghast wrote: post #100

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

> I assume that some people are just very lonely and need face to face Anecdata from Hacker News suggests this is true. A lot of lonely young men here freely admit their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person, and remote work takes that away from them.

> their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person

This sort of self-alienation seems to be a pretty widespread problem larger than the in-person/remote debate. That said, it's probably better for those experiencing it to have some in-person socialization in the office than none.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#124

Post by spaniard89277 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

I won't accept any non-remote job where I need long commutes and I have to sit my ass there for the whole week.

Just yesterday we had a summer day, so just after lunch I went to a remote beach, used my phone as AP and worked for about 5 hours until nightfall.

No interruptions, no annoying noises, not battling with AC.

I mean, having tasted this, Im pretty sure what would I do if my company asks me to go back to office. I still have a low paying job, but my life has improved dramatically.

And my office is literally 5m walk from my home, so Im already ahead of many people in that, but it's a noisy bunker with no window, lots of people and all kinds of other BS.

People is definitely lonely. I can understand that, but I won't pay for other peoples loneliness.

If you want friends, ask me for a beer, or come to my house, I like to cook for people.

But Id bet that this is more of a managers thing.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#125

Post by kube-system » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #32

jdavis703 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the best remote setups are in low-density places with large homes. People moving from NYC and SF to Wyoming and Austin are going to be living in sprawl. There vehicle miles traveled (VMT) are going to increase: after all it’s not going to be a lockdown where white collar workers stay inside 24/7.

So (honest question), you think people doing remote-friendly jobs are in dense urban areas and don't contribute to car emission much ? so when these guys relocate far away, they're going to switch from public transportation to car ?

This is what is happening. Over the past 2 years, people have left cities with solid public transit (SF, Chicago, NYC) and have been moving towards car centric areas in places like Arizona, Florida, Texas.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#126

Post by silisili » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #118

silisili wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. Seems not too long before people started really hating offices, offices started being designed to make you hate them. Open offices, no walls, 'island concept' which sounds all fun and tropical until you learn it just means you no longer even have your own desk. If companies want people back in offices, make them enticing. Have perks! Imagine everyone getting their own room, with a nice desk and maybe small couc…

I agree with everything you said but how is "free daycare" something small? Daycare costs thousands of dollars and the regulations and licensure are (rightfully) a very high bar. I would see free daycare as a huge perk and I don't even have kids.

You're right, its impact is not small at all. My wife pretty much stayed out of the labor market because day care costs so much.

I guess I was thinking the work involved seemed relatively small compared to redesigning whole offices- just carve out a couple areas and hire some caretakers. But I'm pretty ignorant of the laws, regulations, and needs as you pointed out, so that's probably not small at all either.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#127

Post by lukas099 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

cwmoreiras wrote: post #101

sharemywin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be sarcastic. I genuinely asking. Why? I'm not a fan of the office because: 1. I don't like the commute 2. I have an office in my house, but at the "office"; I would be sharing some kind of space. 3. now that covid is less of an issue I plan on going to lunch more with freinds.

1. I like my commute. If my commute changed I would feel differently. Regardless, I feel employees should get paid for their commutes. 2. I don't have an office in my house. Even if I had the space I don't think I would want to use it for work. However, since coronavirus happened I have had way more space in my office than I did before, and I refuse to be sandwiched between two other engineers in an open office floor…

> I feel employees should get paid for their commutes. This would lead to more pollution, sprawl, and deaths by automobile as people would be incentivized to live further from work.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#128

Post by achenet » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

Adraghast wrote: post #100

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

> I assume that some people are just very lonely and need face to face Anecdata from Hacker News suggests this is true. A lot of lonely young men here freely admit their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person, and remote work takes that away from them.

join a sports activity. Free socializing, plus health benefits. :)

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#129

Post by paulcole » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

Bluecobra wrote: post #109

eminence32 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to all of the social reasons others have listed, I'll list 2 technical reasons why an office is a more comfortable place for me to work: I have 2 large monitors at my office desk (so when you include my laptop's screen, I have a total of 3 monitors; lots of screen space). Compared to no external monitors at home. At the office, I have a gigabit connection to the LAN and file servers. At home, I have a VPN…

These seem like easily solvable problems though. I have three monitors at home and 1Gb AT&T Fiber Internet.

Some people don’t want to solve this problem. My apartment is small and I have 0 interest in 3 ugly work monitors visible where I can see them all the time.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#130

Post by mwattsun » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

eminence32 wrote: post #99

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

Nothing anyone says in these comments should invalidate your own personal experiences and successes with your working arrangements. But I have to admit I'm surprised to hear you say that you are "astonished" that any programmer would prefer to work differently. 2 things that I've learned from reading NH over the years: tech/programmer people are often very opinionated, and also have widely different opinions on just…

Admittedly what you say is true. People tend to believe other people think like them. I go on my own lived experience. Never once in 8 years did any of my coworkers suggest we get an office. We felt lucky to be able to work at home for all the reasons that people give.

I had a couple of other reasons for hating the office that I don't often see mentioned. I'm sensitive to 60 Hz fluorescent lights and also to bad air. Most offices are flooded with this kind of light and don't recirculate the plastic and office supply fumes often enough.