37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home • Hacker News Board

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#211

Post by willcipriano » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

lbriner wrote: post #72

kreeben wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

We are going to have a massive problem with taking on juniors, particularly younger people. Without many people visiting the office, there is a lack of banter, encouragement, confidence building. Imagine you were 16 and your introduction to the world of work was sitting in your own bedroom! Honestly, I don't know how we deal with it unless we create a schedule where there has to be certain people in the office on cer…

Firms stopped investing in talent decades ago. Go ask new grads if anyone wants to train you anymore. All the job ads I see are a laundry list of skills and they expect you to hit the ground running on day one.

Once it became necessary to look for a new job every 1 - 2 years to stay current with the market, firms stopped with the training, "they will just leave in two years" they cried. In this world your arugment no longer holds water.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#212

Post by jghn » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

heassler wrote: post #192

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

Going to the office means getting to know the people you work with to a meaningful level (there are other opportunities to do that besides meetings, such as having lunch together or going out for a coffee/walk) in a way that is simply not possible when chatting via google meets. But there’s also the increased exposure to serendipity. Unexpected things occur in the office. Maybe you overhear a conversation that makes…

> Maybe you overhear a conversation

This is the one thing I've never found a suitable replacement for in the remote world. Chance encounters are difficult to replicate. Maybe I'm discussing an issue with a colleague, and someone in earshot happens to know the answer. I've seen groups try to have policies like no DMs and only using public channels, but that sucks.

I much prefer remote life, but it's true that there are some aspects of in person work that are better.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#213

Post by iso1631 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

throwaway4aday wrote: post #177

Adraghast wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume that some people are just very lonely and need face to face Anecdata from Hacker News suggests this is true. A lot of lonely young men here freely admit their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person, and remote work takes that away from them.

WFHomers need a modern equivalent of the Knitting Bee. Distinct from a co-working space since it is organized by its members who make an effort to get to know each other and it shouldn't be dependent on membership with some organization, just a grassroots locally organized thing.

Why?

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#214

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

achenet wrote: post #128

Adraghast wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume that some people are just very lonely and need face to face Anecdata from Hacker News suggests this is true. A lot of lonely young men here freely admit their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person, and remote work takes that away from them.

join a sports activity. Free socializing, plus health benefits. :)

>Free socializing, plus health benefits. :)

Not my experience. At sports activities where I live, people come to do sports, not really to socialize. Once the sport activity is over, most go home to their kids/wives/girlfriends/etc. At least in Germany where the focus is always on the activity at hand, and socializing with strangers is a distraction from the activity you came for.

I practice 3 different sports right now (bouldering, CrossFit and dancing), hoping to maybe make some friends or find a partner out of it in this WFH world and it's all the same, once the activity is over, people want to go home, not stay and have a beer or chat. :(

Maybe I was lucky in the past but the best friends I've ever made and sometimes partners were found on the same workplace or campus, but I sure as hell feel very unlucky and miserable now, however, I really don't wish for people who don't like being in the office to be forced to come to work, that's really stupid, but this hybrid model is the norm where I live and is the worst of both worlds. Some offices are really nightmare material.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#215

Post by darkwater » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #164

Cederfjard wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people also don’t have living conditions at home that are conducive to being productive. Not everyone can afford the space to have a proper home office, for example.

> Not everyone can afford the space to have a proper home office, for example. Because they have to live in expensive urban areas near their workplace. Their money would stretch much further if they could remote-work from rural areas.

If we are taking into account more than 1/3 of jobs could be remote, that starts to include many white-collar jobs that are not paid that well. And if we extrapolate this from the USA to other places (like Europe) you can live in a small town and still earn just enough to live in a 2 or 3 dormitories flat, with no dedicated space for WFH for one, let alone for a couple (it's 1/3 of the jobs, so chances that both can do WFH are not that low).

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#216

Post by iso1631 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:58 PM UTC

markus_zhang wrote: post #131

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

With a kid at home I'm very inclined to work in office whenever it allows. I'm also much more productive in office when everything from coffee to food are taken care of. Nowadays I believe WFH is kinda the norm in IT as long as company policy allows. I love the hybrid mode: two days in office to relax, three days at home to help wifie with kid.

> two days in office to relax, three days at home to help wifie with kid.

This is not working from home, or working anywhere

If you think working from home means you have time to "help with the kid", you're wrong.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#217

Post by mike10921 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:58 PM UTC

heassler wrote: post #192

mwattsun wrote: post #67

5 of us wrote Microsoft Works for the Macintosh while working at home from 1984 to 1992. Without the internet, we got together as needed to merge code, usually once a month, but sometimes once a week. We talked on the phone. We went to Microsoft once in awhile. It was ideal and worked very well. Maybe it was just our personalities that made it work, but I am astonished that any programmer would rather go into the off…

Going to the office means getting to know the people you work with to a meaningful level (there are other opportunities to do that besides meetings, such as having lunch together or going out for a coffee/walk) in a way that is simply not possible when chatting via google meets. But there’s also the increased exposure to serendipity. Unexpected things occur in the office. Maybe you overhear a conversation that makes…

Agree with all of that. For me, the issue with working at home is that home is my relaxing and family place office is my work place. My mind focuses at work much better when i am in my work environment.

Creating real connections with co workers from my experience is not possible via zoom / google meets. There is nothing that can replace real human interaction as far as creating relationships.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#218

Post by closeparen » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #121

Adraghast wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume that some people are just very lonely and need face to face Anecdata from Hacker News suggests this is true. A lot of lonely young men here freely admit their coworkers are the only people they regularly interact with in-person, and remote work takes that away from them.

I'd spin this around and cast it as a challenge -- regular, forced interactions with coworkers is minimally sufficient and retards some people from pursuing social activities outside the home. There are already a number of options in even the smallest town. I expect that will increase as more people move to WFH and seek social outlets. And at the end of the day "interacting with coworkers in the break room" is a pret…

I don't particularly enjoy the forced, stilted chatter but I do get a lot of value from:

a) Being obliged to put on clothes and leave the house.

b) Spending a large part of the day at a change of scenery.

c) Having other people there, around, ambiently.

Spending 23 hours a day alone in your room + 1 hour for outdoor exercise, with occasional weekend visitation, is among the worst punishments the state has at its disposal. It boggles the mind that people do this voluntarily.

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#219

Post by 30367286 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 5:00 PM UTC

lamontcg wrote: post #173

30367286 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd spin this around and cast it as a challenge -- regular, forced interactions with coworkers is minimally sufficient and retards some people from pursuing social activities outside the home. Absolutely. Additionally, even getting to that set of regular, forced interactions necessarily consumes the limited time those people would have to pursue those social activities outside the home. That is, it's hard to have a…

> Hybrid is a sufficient compromise. No it isn't.

What is a sufficient compromise, in your view, that satisfies the need of some workers to have regular face to face interactions with coworkers and prevents corporations unprepared to manage a remote team from whipping back to full in-office?

I do not want to put words in your mouth, but since you offered so few of them, I am tempted to believe you are one of the few lucky workers who has sufficient leverage to wholesale refuse to work in an office. If that is you, or if you the reader are such a person: consider the path we must take to bring flexible work to more people.

With that goal and those prerequisites in mind, what is a sufficient compromise?

Re: 37% of jobs in the United States can be performed entirely at home

#220

Post by tayo42 » Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 5:02 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #195

Someone1234 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone can afford the space to have a proper home office, for example. Because they have to live in expensive urban areas near their workplace. Their money would stretch much further if they could remote-work from rural areas.

Until rural areas cost of living goes up because 37% of people decided to move out to unsustainable rural areas. Overall - moving to somewhere more rural is a fix for an individual looking to solve their financial problem but it is not a society wide solution. Rural homes are a net drain on society and are subsidized by city workers.

You also have to live in that rural area too. I think there's more to living then having a giant home with nothing to do. Likely won't be able to relate to the people around you at all.