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Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

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Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#141

Post by pieter_mj »

kashyapc wrote: post #92

It reminds me of a similar problem I face in Dutch (and still trip up if I'm not conscious): In Dutch (my 4th language), "half nine" ("half negen") means 8:30 . Whereas in English[1] "half nine" means 9:30 . So there were times when I missed appointments by an hour! After 7 years of being immersed in the language, I still have to deliberately engage my brain whenever someone says "half nine" (or whatever the hour) in…

I don't think any English speaking person, in whatever variant, would use that expression.

What "half negen" means is easier to remember when you contrast "half" to "vol"/"heel" -> half nine is not full nine yet.

To be clear, nobody uses "vol negen" or "heel negen", it's just "negen (uur)".

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#142

Post by FerociousTimes »

ju-st wrote: post #33

I always look it up on Google. I regularly run into this kind of problem when looking at log files which use AM/PM time. Related question: How do you even say "14:00" in English? In school I learned that you say o'clock but I never heard that in real life.

not a native speaker here but you could say "Two PM sharp"

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#143

Post by Koshkin »

majewsky wrote: post #113
Koshkin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you want the clock face to be changed to show 24 hours instead of 12? (What would be the number at the top then - 0 or 24?)

You're making it sound as though a 24-hour format is a wild new idea when it's actually in common use across 100+ countries. Timestamps go from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 without breaks in continuity. The clock still has 12 hours with the 12 on top, but it is commonly understood that "12" on the clock face can refer to either 0 or 12, just like how "5" can refer to either 5 or 17.

To clarify, I was responding to the "should go away" part.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#144

Post by GoodbyeMrChips »

kashyapc wrote: post #92

It reminds me of a similar problem I face in Dutch (and still trip up if I'm not conscious): In Dutch (my 4th language), "half nine" ("half negen") means 8:30 . Whereas in English[1] "half nine" means 9:30 . So there were times when I missed appointments by an hour! After 7 years of being immersed in the language, I still have to deliberately engage my brain whenever someone says "half nine" (or whatever the hour) in…

> British and Irish English only? Others can correct me here.

You are correct....

Unlike 'merkin English, in British English saying 'half nine' [meaning 9:30] is fine and one would only say 'half-past-nine' if they were feeling verbose, or have a Dutch workmate and were trying to avoid confusion :-)

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#145

Post by micromacrofoot »

kcplate wrote: post #123
micromacrofoot wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine how you are interpreting it as anything but an insult. Can you elaborate?

Quoted post unavailable.

It's clearly used as an adjective here, which is the pejorative use of the term. It's even packaged in quotes, which alludes to the colloquial form of the word.

If you were to use it properly, you'd say "societal progress has been retarded by the U.S." you wouldn't say "the U.S. has done something retarded"

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#146

Post by wink »

technobabbler wrote: post #96
kashyapc wrote: post #92

It reminds me of a similar problem I face in Dutch (and still trip up if I'm not conscious): In Dutch (my 4th language), "half nine" ("half negen") means 8:30 . Whereas in English[1] "half nine" means 9:30 . So there were times when I missed appointments by an hour! After 7 years of being immersed in the language, I still have to deliberately engage my brain whenever someone says "half nine" (or whatever the hour) in…

In the United States we do not say "half nine". We'd say "half PAST nine" sometimes but honestly "nine thirty" is a lot more common.

It's very colloquial and very regional but I've heard English speakers say it. The VAST majority only used "half past x" in my experience.

Same thing in German though. Usually you only use "drei viertel neun" and "halb neun" (i.e. 8:45 == three quarters nine, and 8:30) but in some regions they say "viertel neun" (quarter nine) for 8:15, but the people not from that region often mishear it as "viertel nach neun" (quarter past nine) because why would you say the former, so the speaker must have spoke the 'nach' too silent...

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#147

Post by micromacrofoot »

maydup-nem wrote: post #93
Koshkin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some people are born that way.

Quoted post unavailable.

Unless you're someone's physician you can't really make an assessment that would allow you to determine if someone is intellectually disabled, so don't use it as an insult.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#148

Post by SahAssar »

goosedragons wrote: post #103
SahAssar wrote: post #32

I'd be triped up too... to me it makes no sense that it goes 11AM, 12PM, 1PM. That it keeps the number sequence, switches the AM/PM, and then an hour later wraps the number sequence is just odd.

It comes from analog clocks and how you read them. They only have 12 hours, so 11:59 ticks over to 12:00.

11:59 to 12:00 makes perfect sense. 12:59 to 1:00 makes perfect sense (since it wraps after 12). What does not make sense to me is not switching from AM to PM at the same time as wrapping from 12 to 1.

I understand that it comes from analog clocks, but when represented on anything else it feels wrong.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#149

Post by kashyapc »

pieter_mj wrote: post #141
kashyapc wrote: post #92

It reminds me of a similar problem I face in Dutch (and still trip up if I'm not conscious): In Dutch (my 4th language), "half nine" ("half negen") means 8:30 . Whereas in English[1] "half nine" means 9:30 . So there were times when I missed appointments by an hour! After 7 years of being immersed in the language, I still have to deliberately engage my brain whenever someone says "half nine" (or whatever the hour) in…

I don't think any English speaking person, in whatever variant, would use that expression. What "half negen" means is easier to remember when you contrast "half" to "vol"/"heel" -> half nine is not full nine yet. To be clear, nobody uses "vol negen" or "heel negen", it's just "negen (uur)".

Well, I have heard in real "half nine" used by an Irish colleague. And looking up on the internet, there's similar confusion[1], and someone clarifies "half nine = 9.30"

And thank you for the "vol" / "heel" distinction in this context. I feel that definitely is going to stick! :-)

https://www.antimoon.com/forum/t14406.htm

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#150

Post by thfuran »

technobabbler wrote: post #132
njkleiner wrote: post #116

Okay, I'm genuinely confused now, can someone please explain this to me? First of all, how is nobody taking about the fact that OP was scheduled for an exam that takes place... at midnight. There are two possible cases here. Some people are alleging that OP lives in the same place as the exam takes place -- which is not clear to me from the information available -- and use this as an excuse for saying "OP should adop…

Not the OP, just offering some thoughts. > There are two possible cases here. (snip) I was under the impression that it was common (in places that use the 12 hour system) to instead write 12:00 noon/midnight specifically to avoid this. IMHO the bigger takeaway ought to be that what is "common" in your area isn't necessarily common in another part of the country, or in another country. This confusion exists because th…

>I was under the impression that it was common (in places that use the 12 hour system) to instead write 12:00 noon/midnight specifically to avoid this.

(In the US) I've probably seen that done outside this thread but I'm not sure. Just "noon" or "midnight" would be more common than that and if numerals are being written, I'd say "12 noon/midnight" is far rarer than "12 AM/PM". In places where 12 hour time notation is used, people are just expected to know 12 hour time notation.

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