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Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

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Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#131
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you want the clock face to be changed to show 24 hours instead of 12? (What would be the number at the top then - 0 or 24?)

You're making it sound as though a 24-hour format is a wild new idea when it's actually in common use across 100+ countries. Timestamps go from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 without breaks in continuity. The clock still has 12 hours with the 12 on top, but it is commonly understood that "12" on the clock face can refer to either 0 or 12, just like how "5" can refer to either 5 or 17.

What’s the difference? In both the 12 and 24 hour system the clock rolls over at the end of the period, and the period starts.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#132

Okay, I'm genuinely confused now, can someone please explain this to me? First of all, how is nobody taking about the fact that OP was scheduled for an exam that takes place... at midnight. There are two possible cases here. Some people are alleging that OP lives in the same place as the exam takes place -- which is not clear to me from the information available -- and use this as an excuse for saying "OP should adop…

Not the OP, just offering some thoughts.

> There are two possible cases here. (snip) I was under the impression that it was common (in places that use the 12 hour system) to instead write 12:00 noon/midnight specifically to avoid this.

IMHO the bigger takeaway ought to be that what is "common" in your area isn't necessarily common in another part of the country, or in another country. This confusion exists because the Europeans (and nowadays the Americans) exported their time measurement system across cultures, to mixed success. It's never obvious and should not be assumed to be... that confusion can exist no matter what actual UNIX time the test was scheduled at.

> Second, I don't understand people saying they use 11:59/12:01 AM/PM as a mnemonic. This makes no sense to me as 00:01 a valid time.

For this specific case, it helps clarify what is "noon" vs "midnight". For some reason people are a lot better with knowing 11:59pm is, vs 12:00AM. The cutover is what throws people off. And for most purposes, the +/- 1-3 minute difference won't matter.

The midnight/noon thing doesn't really help when you're going across oceans though. Or, like you said, if you're not familiar with AM/PM at all.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#133

Okay, I'm genuinely confused now, can someone please explain this to me? First of all, how is nobody taking about the fact that OP was scheduled for an exam that takes place... at midnight. There are two possible cases here. Some people are alleging that OP lives in the same place as the exam takes place -- which is not clear to me from the information available -- and use this as an excuse for saying "OP should adop…

I'd certainly prefer to take an exam at midnight in my local time zone rather than noon. No need to fight with morning brain fog.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 12, you generally pronounce it as military time. So you would say "14 hundred hours" I think.

> you generally pronounce it as military time WTF is 'military time'?

https://militaryconnection.com/military-time/amp/

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#135
If something that I can't miss is listed in a different time zone than the one I'm in I go online and find a time zone converter. You can just tell it '12am in x city' and there is another box where you enter your own location and it doesn all the work for you.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#136

Okay, I'm genuinely confused now, can someone please explain this to me? First of all, how is nobody taking about the fact that OP was scheduled for an exam that takes place... at midnight. There are two possible cases here. Some people are alleging that OP lives in the same place as the exam takes place -- which is not clear to me from the information available -- and use this as an excuse for saying "OP should adop…

Not the OP, just offering some thoughts. > There are two possible cases here. (snip) I was under the impression that it was common (in places that use the 12 hour system) to instead write 12:00 noon/midnight specifically to avoid this. IMHO the bigger takeaway ought to be that what is "common" in your area isn't necessarily common in another part of the country, or in another country. This confusion exists because th…

> For some reason people are a lot better with knowing 11:59pm is, vs 12:00AM.

You mean, people have a mental association like "Oh look it's 12:00 AM [= midnight], better get to bed now" because they see these times in specific contexts, and then use that as a jumping off point to extrapolate the meaning of AM/PM as a whole?

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making it sound as though a 24-hour format is a wild new idea when it's actually in common use across 100+ countries. Timestamps go from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 without breaks in continuity. The clock still has 12 hours with the 12 on top, but it is commonly understood that "12" on the clock face can refer to either 0 or 12, just like how "5" can refer to either 5 or 17.

What’s the difference? In both the 12 and 24 hour system the clock rolls over at the end of the period, and the period starts.

The difference is that in 12-hour system, the rollover point is ambiguous and non-intuitive (11 PM -> 12 AM -> 1 AM), while in 24-hour one it's perfectly clear and obvious.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#138

You have to learn other cultures' norms if you want to live or work with them. It goes both ways. Europe and America do not only time differently, but phone numbers (1-800-123-1234 in the USA, 06 86 57 90 14 in France), dates (Jan 1 1911 would be 1/1/11 in the USA, 11-1-1 elsewhere), decimals (1,000.00 or 1.000,00), units (inches vs centimeters), reading order, daylight savings time, time zones (some countries don't…

[flagged]

Eh, I only said that because I didn't grow up in the US, and had to learn American ways to live and work here. America's a huge part of the world economy and international business, so you're probably going to run into one at some point (sorry, Earth).

But the US isn't the only place with different practices.

China has no time zones. New Zealand's Chatham Island has a 45 min time zone, as in UTC+12:45. Some institutions use lunar or cultural calendars instead of Gregorian time. Some don't use Arabic numerals outside of Western collaboration.

Time aside, the US, Canada, Chile, Colombia, the Philippines, and a few other places use letter-sized instead of A4 paper. Phone number formats are different everywhere. The time and decimal separators are different in many places. Time and timeliness (as in how important it is to start and end on time) differs by culture. Preference for information density vs simplifying cognitive load (in the UX sense) differs between languages and cultures. Red is a warning in some cultures and good luck in others. Not all colors are even distinguishable between cultures. Do you act casual, or formal? Keep your distance or offer a touch? Right hand, left hand? Is pointing OK? How long should you maintain eye contact? First names, last names? Many cultural systems don't identify people like that. Nodding isn't a universal gesture. Do you do a haka before events? What about a ritual blessing before a competition? There are SO many differences to consider in an international context.

Big companies have entire departments working on this stuff, not because they are ludicrously US-centric, but because it's so different everywhere.

I only mentioned the US vs Europe differences because that's what the OP asked for. Shrug. I'm not shilling for the American ways, just describing them. I wish we went metric decades ago, because it's a far superior system.

But the thing about standards: everyone has their own.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#139

Each african here and in Swahili time, the day starts at 7:00 AM and ends at 6:59PM and night starts at 7:00 PM and ends at 6:59AM. So, I would read "12:00 AM" as "six hours into the night" since its been 6 hours since the night has started. I would also read "12:00 PM" as "six hours into the day" since its been six hours since the day has started. Speaking it, i would say "saa 6 mchana" and the literal translation i…

That's really fascinating. When do businesses typically open and close? Are there set times?

Typically, its from "8:00 AM" to "4:00 PM".

In swahili time, i would say "its from hour 2 in the morning to hour 10 in the everning.

Re: Ask HN: What does 12:00 AM mean?

#140
post #88
post #10

Ante meridium and post meridium. Ante- meaning “before”, meridium meaning “highest point of the sun” as in when the sun crosses the “meridian” which would be the line in which it is now setting instead of rising. Passing from post-meridian to ante-meridian is exactly 12 hours from when the sun passed the meridian point, to keep it “consistent”. I get though that it’s confusing, I questioned it a lot as a young boy. P…

FWIW there are very few moments in time and space where the sun will have reached its highest point at exactly 12:00 PM so even that logic is nonsensical. The only consistent mental model is that for traditional reasons clocks go from 1 to 12 and 12 is actually the zero point of the next 12 hour cycle. It's literally just a cultural artefact you have to commit to rote memorization because there's no good reason for i…

It has more to it than just being a cultural artifact. I think it’s fascinating that ancient cultures preferred a duodecimal system: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock
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