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I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

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Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#971

Post by rayiner »

pen2l wrote: post #943
visarga wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Math, medicine and law don't become any easier no matter how much you avoid testing. At some point they got to know the subjects.

Medical sector has one responsibility: take care of the patients. Doctors that share a racial and cultural with their patients are able to provide better care. It's been seen in multiple studies that elder African American women are more likely to follow the advice of the doctor if the doctor shared their background. There is little controversy around the fact that diversity leads to improved health outcomes ( https:…

> Doctors that share a racial and cultural with their patients are able to provide better care

Explain why Asians and Hispanics live longer than whites despite most doctors being white?

Conversely, are you suggesting all those Indian doctors all over rural America should be replaced with white doctors?

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#972

Post by porknubbins »

mordymoop wrote: post #851
Forgeties79 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so refreshing to see this take. I was on a path to be a history Ph.D candidate - I wanted to teach, and archive diving is basically my own personal drug. The problem is it’s “publish or perish,” as we all know. My higher priority, i.e. teaching, was essentially an obstacle. You know how I know that? My own advisor and other department members told me not to get my doctorate (after writing a 60 page thesis mind…

I didn’t find out until many years after graduating that the US is sprinkled with what are known as Primarily Undergraduate Institutions (PUIs), including a large number of well-regarded 4-year colleged which don’t have graduate programs, the professors don’t do (much) research (but do have PhDs generally) and the hiring and evaluation decisions are 90% based on teaching. These institutions are usually on the small s…

One caveat- I went to one of these and had a very good experience, but finding a job is a huge problem later if you don’t already have connections from family etc, because of the lack of name recognition. Recruiting is much better at much lower ranked state schools.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#973

Post by Forgeties79 »

tikiman163 wrote: post #946
Forgeties79 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so refreshing to see this take. I was on a path to be a history Ph.D candidate - I wanted to teach, and archive diving is basically my own personal drug. The problem is it’s “publish or perish,” as we all know. My higher priority, i.e. teaching, was essentially an obstacle. You know how I know that? My own advisor and other department members told me not to get my doctorate (after writing a 60 page thesis mind…

Dude, getting a PhD is about becoming a philosopher, it's literally in the name. You can't do that but only teach.

It’s not like I expected to literally only teach. The problem is it can’t be a priority under the current system.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#974

Post by popcube »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #417
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are schools that don't allow grad students to teach.

That’s a shame, because sometimes graduate students are better teachers than research faculty.

better on teach content of text book. But if someone want to learn how to research, they should learned it from who actually research each day

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#975

Post by MrMan »

coderenegade wrote: post #291
koolba wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not a non-problem for people without your privilege. Gig workers, immigrants and others with no viable options are forced to do these jobs or starve. All the while people complain about immigrants crossing the border and "taking their jobs". That’s exactly what’s happening. With a steady flow of cheap labor to take these jobs, the wages for them will remain stagnant. It makes perfect sense for low income work…

This is exactly right. Here in Australia, the borders have been closed for two years, and surprise surprise, we now have some of the lowest unemployment figures in the country's history. And for the first time in a generation, wages are starting to increase. For knowledge workers who want to work from home, the end result will be competing on a global market against workers from developing countries who can afford to…

you may find that labor shortage and shrinking population takes some of the joy out of the exclusion of additional participants in your economy

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#976

Post by mgh2 »

wpietri wrote: post #91
mgh2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it pedigrees that matter or what these signal? Ethics aside, I rather have a smart person in charge rather than the opposite

What they signal? Like generational wealth and elite connections? [1] I have definitely seen hiring managers lean very hard on pedigree so they didn't have to do the actual work of evaluating candidates. It was basically the same deal with a lot of certifications, like Scrum/Agile and Java certs. I also think that your bucketing people such that Harvard = smart and state school = "the opposite" is a great example of…

Nobody said anything about state schools - focus on the main argument.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#977

Post by wyclif »

doom2 wrote: post #886
mordymoop wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t find out until many years after graduating that the US is sprinkled with what are known as Primarily Undergraduate Institutions (PUIs), including a large number of well-regarded 4-year colleged which don’t have graduate programs, the professors don’t do (much) research (but do have PhDs generally) and the hiring and evaluation decisions are 90% based on teaching. These institutions are usually on the small s…

How many of them have strong STEM programs though? My partner went to a PUI, but it was firmly a liberal arts school (not that you can't move into STEM with a liberal arts degree). I chose my own undergraduate school because it had a decent engineering program but obviously was a research university. The two I can think of are Harvey Mudd and Rose Hulman.

I know somebody with really impressive engineering skills who works for Rolls-Royce and graduated from Rose Hulman. Anecdotal but if he is anything like their typical students, that school has a good engineering department.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#978

Post by d7d7ectc »

throwawaycities wrote: post #451

I think the writing on the wall is clear regarding student loans. The entire notion of taxpayer funded student loans is a scam on both taxpayers and students. It’s a system that allows the colleges/universities to charge any tuition they want and guarantees there will be an artificial demand. For about a decade at least 1M student loan holders default per year. Long before the defaults reached that high, everyone inv…

If education were supposed to benefit the student then the educational systems wouldn't let them choose non-beneficial majors. Loans are fine if they lead to greater returns. The only writing that's on the wall is that society has to decide between propping up the useless subjects and students or subsidizing them so that they can keep producing cultural value instead of actual value.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#979

Post by brorfred »

grobclaw wrote: post #778
mellavora wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is troubling about that last paragraph? First, by definition, not everyone can be elite. Hell, you can't even get more than 50% of the population to be better than average! -- its math. And if "In America not being part of the elite is a failure because the political and economical system is made to benefit, empower and sustain elites." is true (which seems likely), then maybe that is what needs to change. A goo…

Probably not relevant to the point you want to make, but you seem to be confusing average and median.

Average can mean either mean or median.

Re: I think US college education is nearer to collapsing than it appears

#980

Post by astrange »

erosenbe0 wrote: post #675
noobermin wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me explain a line of reasoning that would refute the explanation you provide for the ballooning debt. Universities have not generally changed the way they do things, universities have always been the four things OP listed since forever, even when you likely got your degree (assuming you did, or at the very least most of hacker news did), they were those four things too! Therefore, there is no inherent thing to un…

Gross oversimplification. In 1960s when states funded a higher proportion of things, students in wheelchairs might have no place to pee and women were not guaranteed same opportunities as men. Even into the 1980s buildings were simple brutalist concrete dungeons and A/C was not an expectation; there was no campus IT; no plethora of career placement systems; counseling office; Title IX compliance office; free medical…

I kind of miss brutalist dungeons. Are there any good ones you can visit?
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