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3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

stopgas.org

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Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#171

Post by gruez »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #125
gruez wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or... And how cost effective are those storage methods?

Compared to gas at pre-war prices, they were getting close but not quite competitive. Compared to current gas prices or nuclear, batteries are dirt cheap and some of the others are almost as cheap as batteries.

Source? Looking at this report[1], battery storage methods are 2x-3x the cost of "combustion turbine" (natural gas?). Presumably the kW and kWh costs for storage costs don't factor in the underlying of the energy they're storing, so the actual cost is likely higher.

[1] https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2019/07/f65/Storage%... (figures 5.5 and 5.6)

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#172

Post by cm2187 »

aksss wrote: post #147
cm2187 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As JP Morgan said, a person always has two reasons for doing something: a good reason and the real reason. I think the sympathy for Ukrainians is a bit of a pretext. It's not just a pretext, there is clearly a lot of sympathy in Europe for Ukraine, not the least because of the geographical and cultural proximity, and we all know ukrainians personally. But the real reason for Europe to be tough on Russia is because Ru…

I think we need to acknowledge that no “red line” implied by NATO’s mutual defense pact has been crossed yet (to my knowledge). I think there are instincts and interests champing at the bit for any pretext to engage with Russia using the lives of their neighbors kids to do so, but for now, I think it’s wise to keep that impulse in check and talk about what the red line really is in a practical sense.

Naturally, and I think Putin will stay clear of that red line.

But there are many other means to be tough with Russia without triggering an all-out war. Not giving him money or trading with him is a start. Providing an unlimited supply of weapons, intelligence and humanitarian aid to Ukraine is another.

We should also be mindful that staying clear of a direct confrontation with Russia doesn't mean Russia should be allowed to set up all sorts of arbitrary red lines in term of what they claim constitutes an act of war. Providing planes to Ukraine for instance isn't an act of war by any standard. Biden's veto on the transfer of the Migs was really an act of weakness that will call for Putin to define more red lines. I heard general McMaster recently mentioning Russian pilots were shooting at US troops in Korea and Vietnam.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#173

Post by DocTomoe »

ummonk wrote: post #76
c0nducktr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not trolling, it's just not a popular opinion.

Not an appropriate question for HN though. Not that it makes a difference to their comment here, which is entirely reasonable.

Advocatus diaboli: WHY is it not an "appropriate" question for NH, and who decides what is appropriate?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#174

Post by micromacrofoot »

Panoramix wrote: post #73
micromacrofoot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and if Germany didn't honor that contract? who's going to litigate?

Where do they get their gas then? You can't change suppliers, it takes months if not years. Or should Germany go without heating through the winter?

the comment I'm replying to is about the contract and legal obligation, not the logistics of replacement

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#176

Post by DocTomoe »

qaq wrote: post #60
tuyguntn wrote: post #34

Quoted post unavailable.

What is the cost of 8 million refuges in EU? (since you are focusing on cost) Russia is not the only oil and gas supplier

Differently from earlier refugee waves, the Ukraininan one may well be a net positive for host countries. I keep hearing stories by refugee helpers that these people want to work, to the point where they refuse host locations if there is no infrastructure (and no jobs) nearby.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#177

Post by micromacrofoot »

pasquinelli wrote: post #80
micromacrofoot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and if Germany didn't honor that contract? who's going to litigate?

i guess they could break the contract but then what would force russia into a new contract later on?

their collapsing economy

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#178

Post by hogrider »

sendfoods wrote: post #63

Does anybody know why Germany isn't really using their domestic gas fields? According to the german EPA equivalent[1] there's enough for 10 years of usage. While I agree with the need to shut off Nordstream I, I am not sure Germany can afford this right now due to historically low gas reserves [2]. I have to disagree with the tone of the statement "We can afford the consequences". Who is "we"? The lower middle class…

They're saving it for the SHTF I guess.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#179

Post by hogrider »

motoboi wrote: post #46

I wouldn’t doubt, given the nefarious consequences for Germany, that this site is Russian INFOSEC campaign. Germany cannot function without Russian gas right now. Simple there isn’t enough BTU’s. Why did Germany put itself into this strange Russian dependency is also very strange. Perfectly fine and environmentally friendly nuclear power plants for dependency from Russian natural gas. Why?

The analysis I've heard leading to the invasion is the interdependence is calculated since that's what brought peace to western Europe, they'd hope the same with Russia.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#180

Post by tuyguntn »

gre wrote: post #169
hackerfromthefu wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theme of their posts seems consistent with what a russian psy-op would be. Probably a paid inciter/troll.

Is it hard to imagine there are people who want Putin to win as fast as possible so that fewer lives are lost and nuclear war is prevented? Ukraine should have stayed neutral wrt NATO, and at any time Zelensky can end his war, but he won't.

this is exactly my point, thanks for pointing it out better than me! I don't care who wins at this moment, I vote for stopping war, not only in Ukraine, but in all other countries. If war stops tomorrow either with Russian win or EU win I am happy for both

We are human species, we haven't chose Earth, why millions should get killed for the ambitious of very small subset of humans

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