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3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

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Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#101

Post by ummonk »

choeger wrote: post #52
tuyguntn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

instead of banning Russian oil, I would first start with banning sending weapons to Ukraine and demand 240 hours non-stop negotiations to stop the war sooner. 10 days of not leaving anywhere unless consensus has been reached

There won't be consensus. This war started over one party having lots of demands and not even recognizing the other party as sovereign and the other party just wanting to be left in peace. How the fuck should a compromise look like here? It's like being robbed at gunpoint and negotiating a deal with the robber about how much you might keep.

This war started in 2014 when a foreign funded protest was created to overthrow a democratically elected (albeit corrupt) government. This government then responded to local demands for autonomy in minority provinces by attacking them with neo-Nazi militia for the past 8 years.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#102

Post by aerostable_slug »

lifewallet_dev wrote: post #26
tluyben2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not comfortable but inside houses you do not freeze to death like that. Sleep in your clothes, buy an electric heater next to your bed, get an electric blanket etc. I slept for quite a long time like that in the Netherlands because my mates squat building had no heat. That was during one of the coldest winters where all canals in Amsterdam were frozen enough to skate on. So yeah, not comfortable but freezing to…

How's the electric heater and the electric blanket work without power?

The issue isn't electricity, it's the fact that German municipal heat plants run on natural gas. Replacing all of that with electrically-powered equipment (centralized or at the endpoints) takes time.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#103

Post by aksss »

unethical_ban wrote: post #10
axiosgunnar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. (nobody will freeze to death btw) And the reasoning is as follows: The actually morally necessary step is to establish a no-fly zone above Ukraine, enforced by force with NATO fighter jets and anti-aircraft systems. People (possibly rightfully) consider that this could lead to a WW3, possibly escalating into the usage of nuclear weapons. So far so good. So the bargain we do is basically "Ukraine, we would do eve…

Agreed. In other words, the EU and US are at war with Russia by all means except direct fire. In a war, citizens will have to make sacrifices. This may include painful economic sacrifices.

A half-hearted proxy war, perhaps. It’s hard to ask US citizens to make real sacrifices (who, beyond symbolism and sympathy, probably don’t give a practical shit about Ukraine - specifically, very few are interested in sending family members to die in Ukraine).

Not sure how my 25 cent analysis of US would translate to Germany, but demands on citizens should probably not get too out of sync with the level of existential threat the citizens perceive. If there’s a perception problem, fix that and then make the demands for sacrifice.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#104

Post by daneel_w »

dmitrygr wrote: post #3

Ok, so what is the solution you propose? Quit russian gaz cold turkey, today? Let people in Berlin freeze to death tonight? (Temperatures are 0 degrees C at night)

But that's outside, not inside. Even an old building with lesser insulation and double-pane windows will hold a higher temperature when inhabited. Humans radiate more than a few watts. It's not comfortable, it's definitely a health concern, but it's still not 0°C.

An anecdote from earlier this winter when the electricity prices peaked in Europe: my girlfriend and I live on 79 sqm in a modern apartment building with triple-pane windows, and because of the landlord being a stingy d*ck we went through several weeks without any heating. During the worst 7-10 days we had a temperature of -4°C outside, but never below 15°C inside. When the temperature rose to 5°C we had about 18°C inside.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#105

Post by blackhaz »

renewiltord wrote: post #56

The environmentalists did this. They killed nuclear. They killed wind in Bavaria. This is the price of all that. Europe has destroyed her nature over the centuries, and now Europe won't do her part. If Russia has Germany by the balls, it's their own fault.

There's nothing wrong with caring about environment. Paid lobby did this, using environmentalism as an argument.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#106

Post by wffurr »

chmod775 wrote: post #50
wffurr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Storage, transmission lines, and over provisioning are also alternatives. Still blows my mind that Germany and other countries are closing nuclear facilities though.

> Still blows my mind that Germany and other countries are closing nuclear facilities though. That's kind of a misconception. Germany isn't (and wasn't) closing any nuclear plants that weren't about to closed anyways - it was all old plants. What Germany did was not bringing online new ones and instead choosing to invest that money elsewhere.

That's one way to spin choosing not to extend the operating licenses of existing plants operating safely.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#107

Post by tuyguntn »

plandis wrote: post #64
tuyguntn wrote: post #34

Quoted post unavailable.

This person is a troll. For example here is one of their previous posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30681090 “Ask HN: Ukrainians, why don’t you surrender?”

Let me copy/paste my question here and check if it was trolling or legitimate question:

Question sounds pathetic, sorry for that, couldn't find better words, but mostly civilians are suffering in this war, why don't you ask Zelensky to surrender and stop this war?

Here is my rationale:

* every single day of war costing more civilian lives from Ukrainian side

* every attack is destroying Ukraine

* every weapon sent by West as a "help" is going to increase resistance, which in turn makes war to last longer.

* don't expect intervention from West, otherwise we might see nuclear bomb thrown to somewhere

* we can ask same question to Putin, why don't you stop the war, but he started war, so he is not going to stop it unless agreement is reached

Let's talk about different cases of power balance:

1. Russia has more power: that means eventually Ukraine will be capitulated

2. Ukraine has more power: Ukraine will win this war, assuming it won't attack Russia, whole Ukraine will be in ruins, lots of lives lost, but in Russia side no civilians are killed, economy will recover, people will say Putin was to blame, now he died, include us to EU

3. equal power balance: war indefinitely

4. Someone from government kills Putin: Then they can say, look we killed him, we are not responsible, so lift the sanctions, similar situation to Option 2 will happen

Option 2 is unlikely at this moment, even if it happens, Ukraine won't win economically, look at what happened in Libya, Syria their economies didn't recover after war.

Stop the war, don't expect Putin is going to stop this war, don't fuel war with weapons.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#108

Post by unvs »

deeviant wrote: post #54
tuyguntn wrote: post #34

Quoted post unavailable.

Oh, whataboutism. Neat?

Exactly! Whataboutism or even the fallacy of relative privation seems to be just everywhere these days. I don't understand the appeal of it. Someone is trying to do something good, is it really neccessary to shoot it down just because there are OTHER bad things that need attention? Such a strange way of moving the spotlight to themselves, in pretending to shine a light on bigger problems.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#109

Post by gruez »

j-pb wrote: post #47
macspoofing wrote: post #17

If you double-down on renewables, then you double-down on natural gas. Germany decided to close down their nuclear and coal generation, so the only thing that is left is natural gas for base load (and to augment renewable intermittency problems).

Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or... The idea that it's nuclear or fossil for baseload is a false dichotomy, that ingores the dozens of intermediary storage solutions. Solar is currently the cheapest source of energy with a margin. Add storage to an overpr…

> Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or...

And how cost effective are those storage methods?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#110

Post by unethical_ban »

Zpalmtree wrote: post #90
unethical_ban wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. In other words, the EU and US are at war with Russia by all means except direct fire. In a war, citizens will have to make sacrifices. This may include painful economic sacrifices.

I didn't sign up for a war

Take that up with the Russian president.
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