Live data from Hacker News

3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

stopgas.org

121–130 of 240 posts

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, whataboutism. Neat?

when is hypocrisy also whataboutism? when is it simply hypocrisy? hard questions.

How is it hypocritical for Europeans to care about a war in Europe but not about a war in the Middle East?

War in Ukraine directly affects European security and pushes millions of refugees into Europe. The Yemeni conflict obviously does not directly affect Europeans.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#122
post #18

I don't know what the contract looks like; doesn't Germany have a legal obligation to pay Russia even if it were to stop LNG imports?

Isn't Russian under a legal obligation to not invade their neighbor and murder it's people and cities?

You're confusing legal with moral.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#123

Does anybody know why Germany isn't really using their domestic gas fields? According to the german EPA equivalent[1] there's enough for 10 years of usage. While I agree with the need to shut off Nordstream I, I am not sure Germany can afford this right now due to historically low gas reserves [2]. I have to disagree with the tone of the statement "We can afford the consequences". Who is "we"? The lower middle class…

> Gas prices are nearly 50% taxed, are they willing to lower it for lower income families? No. Lowering gas taxes is an effective subsidy for Russia. They should do something to offset the impact. Something like Canada's carbon tax rebate, for instance. Give the money to consumers rather than indirectly to Russia.

Could you elaborate? Why is it a subsidy for Russia? Wouldn't it be a pretty unbureaucratic measure with immediate benefit for the consumer?

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#124
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consensus on we believe your nation should not exist? Ukraine already once found the consensus of give up worlds 3d largest nuclear arsenal in exchange for security guarantees. It worked out great.

regarding the security guarantees, it appears that memorandum was not legally binding, and provides no real guarantees, as per the US themselves, and pre-2014. "Regardless, the United States publicly maintains that "the Memorandum is not legally binding", calling it a "political commitment"."[0] " not legally binding ", below. "Media Statement by the U.S. Embassy in Minsk April 12, 2013 Repeated assertions by the gov…

Good Honest deal you got em.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#125
post #109
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or... The idea that it's nuclear or fossil for baseload is a false dichotomy, that ingores the dozens of intermediary storage solutions. Solar is currently the cheapest source of energy with a margin. Add storage to an overpr…

> Or on batteries, or on liquid salt thermal storage upgrades for old fossil plants, or on hydro storage, or on salt cavern pneumatic pressure, or on hydrogen, or on regenerative iron dust cycles, or... And how cost effective are those storage methods?

Compared to gas at pre-war prices, they were getting close but not quite competitive.

Compared to current gas prices or nuclear, batteries are dirt cheap and some of the others are almost as cheap as batteries.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. In other words, the EU and US are at war with Russia by all means except direct fire. In a war, citizens will have to make sacrifices. This may include painful economic sacrifices.

I didn't sign up for a war

Six million Jews didn't sign up for a war either.

Nor did everybody on the 'allied' side in WWII.

Nor did millions of Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Afghanis and so on.

Millions of Ukrainians did not sign up for it.

In fact: almost nobody except for the aggressors signed up for a war and even there that's debatable, usually it's only a few people at the top and then 100's of enablers and thousands to millions of conscripts, who didn't sign up for it either.

But that doesn't mean that you won't end up in a war. The question is how much control you will have over the location of the battlefield. That's why the Americans had this 'fight them over there rather than here' doctrine going. Which given their lack of proximity always was a bit of misdirection, but that doesn't mean that the idea by itself does not have merit.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, a mass oversimplification of current issue. Gas reserves wont last that much because human hoards if they know government are starting to use reserves. And, when politician act, they should think about future too. And, can they purchase gas at 50%? Are those written in deals?

How do you hoard gas?

Asking for a friend? With the right incentives (black market demand), that’s how.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gas prices are nearly 50% taxed, are they willing to lower it for lower income families? No. Lowering gas taxes is an effective subsidy for Russia. They should do something to offset the impact. Something like Canada's carbon tax rebate, for instance. Give the money to consumers rather than indirectly to Russia.

Could you elaborate? Why is it a subsidy for Russia? Wouldn't it be a pretty unbureaucratic measure with immediate benefit for the consumer?

Lowering the price of something increases the demand.

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. In other words, the EU and US are at war with Russia by all means except direct fire. In a war, citizens will have to make sacrifices. This may include painful economic sacrifices.

I didn't sign up for a war

Most people involved in wars did not sign up for them, from my reading of history

Re: 3,599,040,600 € wired by Germany to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine

#130
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person is a troll. For example here is one of their previous posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30681090 “Ask HN: Ukrainians, why don’t you surrender?”

That's not trolling, it's just not a popular opinion.

Kudos to you!

I don't get how people behave when you try to look from other people's perspective and share your opinion, if it doesn't match with their opinion, you immediately marked as "brainwashed", "troll", "stupid conservative" and so on.

Why on Earth we gave up diversity of opinions and started thinking only one side is always right.

* US can ban mass media - stopping propoganda. any other country banning media - violation of freedom of speech * US invades a country, destroys economy for another 50 years - fighting for human rights. any other country, aggressor * CIA tortures - that's fine, we need to get terrorists. any other country - human right violations. * US says something - right! any other person - ohh brainwashed, troll, as if we don't have a brain and we don't compare actions of governments

Post reply on HN