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AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

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Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#221

Post by akomtu »

swayvil wrote: post #40

On my oven I want a knob. That's it. I'll light it with a match. Presently have those lighting spark things on my 5 year old samsung. Already failures. No, I do not want networking, apps, wifi, touchscreens or any form of digitality. This shit is glitter for the "technologically educated" class. Turning a $1 tshirt into a $10 tshirt

It's turning a $10 tshirt into a $1 one, but with a nfc tag so your movements can be tracked (a pretty much ready business idea, VCs must be starting a fight to fund it already).

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#222

Post by noveltyaccount »

DougN7 wrote: post #217
noveltyaccount wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a few Bosch appliances internet-connected. Getting a push notification when the fridge/freezer door is open is nice if you're not near enough to hear the unit beeping. And when a timer elapses on the cooktop I get a push - again, nice if I'm not within earshot.

I’m uncomfortable being out of earshot/sight of the cooktop while it’s on. What if a fire starts?

Simmering rice on induction doesn't worry me in the least

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#223

Post by ck2 »

tristor wrote: post #186
ck2 wrote: post #55

I want to point out most cars made after 2004 or so have no physical connection between not just accelerator and engine but more importantly wheels and steering wheel. So their usability is as good as the software written to control them and the motor/sensor windings, etc. Not unlike the software controlling that microwave.

This is absolutely not true. Most cars have switched to electronic power steering (EPS) which uses a manual steering rack and linkage, but driven by an electric motor controlled by haptics to create more power when turning. Steering wheels are /always/ directly connected to the steering rack, in every single vehicle intended to be operated by a human. Drive by wire systems replaced a mechanical throttle linkage with…

ah you are correct, I confused drive-by-wire with electric-power-steering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_steering#Electric_system...

I did not know there was still a mechanical link.

I still like the fact my car is full mechanical everything which seems to fail more "softly" than any replacement that relies on software. Toyota's electric accelerator and its spaghetti-code comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration...

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#224

Post by goldenkey »

kurthr wrote: post #172
dangerface wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else do you automate the hot pocket delivery system. What is this 2010? Do you expect me to order hot pockets myself like some sort of pleb?

Also, where is the cannon/trebuchet attachment! Hot Pockets are aerodynamically designed to be delivered directly to the mouth for most destructive effect. Short (napalm like cheese), medium (gaseous effect), and long term (myocardial infarction) impacts are improved at higher ordinance deliver rates.

When hotpockets are on a bagel, you can have hotpockets anytime!

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#225

Post by anamax »

wpietri wrote: post #107
ncr100 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did software engineering get to the point where this kind of low quality update is shipped "too often" for serious circumstances like a physical oven? Like it's hardly notable news anymore for something like this to happen. It's frequent. I worry that agile is largely responsible, and has mutated into a pipeline for garbage, though I don't have any evidence to confirm that suspicion.

I don't think "Agile" is responsible, but it is a supporting character here for sure. Let me give a little history from my perspective. I got involved in that movement before the word "Agile" existed; I was really interested in the ideas coming from the Extreme Programming folks and had tried them out on a small project in 2000. All of the people I met early on really wanted to do software well; the question was how…

> Why, then, did it become the predominant way to organize software projects? Because it feels good to managers. For most of the project, it gives them a feeling of control and competence. That feeling is false, as it just delays all of the real-world feedback until near the nominal end. But they can perform confidence and competence to their boss, which is vital in managerialist [5] organizations.

Waterfall is not just "feels good" - it decouples their evaluation from their performance.

Until the end, everything is good because there's no measurement to show otherwise. At the end, measurements that show things have gone wrong merely prove that some past manager failed.

The only way to fail is to be a manager throughout the whole project, and management rotations guarantee that that never happens.

It's not just software. The scheduled manager tenure at at least one of the largest semiconductor companies is one year shorter than the design->ship cycle.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#226

Post by ncmncm »

belval wrote: post #205
ncmncm wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whirlpool refrigerators are designed so that the light inside fails after a year, requiring replacing a >$100 power controller board. If you let your thing connect to the internet, it will be able to dispense with actually burning out a part, and can just stop working under program control.

That seems excessively evil, so the fridge breaks if you don't connect it to the Internet?

My (Whirlpool brand) fridge has no ability to connect, and broke.

I took out the power controller board, unsoldered the two resistors that burned and put on higher wattage rated resistors. The light sort-of works now: it makes several seconds to turn on, dunno why.

Probably the right fix would be to replace the board with a custom design with just a little transformer and a diode.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#227

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

voakbasda wrote: post #194
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but their pricing is just insane. Far out of the reach of the middle class, at least in Europe. I would say Siemens and Bosch are solid while still being affordable.

Bosch pulls the same kind of user-hostile shenanigans as described herein. Any appliance connected to the internet should be tossed in the trash.

Got a source for that claim about Bosch please?

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#228

Post by genocidicbunny »

wkrsz wrote: post #208
ggreg84 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy professional appliances, for restaurants. For some reason, they are often better along many axes: cheaper, easier to clean, more customizable, more powerful, more flexible, etc. I really like the professional induction stoves, with actual physical dials, no touch crap. And the best part, there is a huge used market for professional appliances in really good shape, for even lower price.

Aren’t they too big for a regular home kitchen?

Not necessarily. Some might be, but generally there's demand for smaller appliances in commercial kitchens too. For example, think of the now ubiquitous food trucks -- they don't have a ton of room for the fridge or freezer, but still need one.

If anything, the consumer grade stuff tends to all be made roughly the same, and in many cases is just someone slapping their brand on an OEM appliance.

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#229

Post by k_sze »

wubbert wrote: post #91
Nextgrid wrote: post #52

Why is there no user-facing firmware update/recovery feature, so that at least tech-savvy users can resolve the issue themselves? Or a reset feature that reverts to the factory firmware located on a separate, read-only chip? Ah yes, it's to prevent people downgrading or running "unauthorized" firmware when they inevitably start adding user-hostile "features".

A better question is, why do microwave ovens now need internet connections and software updates?

“Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.” - Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park

Re: AEG combi microwave unusable after update: device thinks it is a steam oven

#230

Post by wpietri »

denton-scratch wrote: post #204
wpietri wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why market forces haven't bankrupted them. I think the short answer is that companies spend many hundreds of billions each year manipulating the market. Instead of going to all the hard work of building a trusted brand, you can just buy one people have a vague familiarity with, spend a bunch on marketing, and ship cheap garbage until the brand value has been reduced to zero.

Yes, I get that. But why are they making machines out of parts they know are defective? Why are they not incentivised to fix the design? For example, a washing-machine electronic control panel with a defective circuit design, which meant that a certain diode was overloaded, and would reliably burn out a short while out of warranty. Electronic control panels for white goods are incredibly expensive. Come to that, if y…

I think you're implying a unity to them, a coherence, that just doesn't exist. I think the more salient question would be something much longer involving the incentives of a half-dozen different people at a company that is mainly optimized for the wealth and ego of various high-status actors. The long-term incentives for effective operations are there, but they're blunted by managerialist priorities and overwhelmed by the short-term incentives for producing cash ASAP.
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