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Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

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Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#51

Post by edmcnulty101 »

I think this form of protest is outdated in modern times.

We're constantly being bombarded by war footage, dead kids from school shootings, suicide bombings, and collapsing skyscrapers.

This may have been significant back in the day but now it's hardly a blip on the radar of tragedies of people trying to send a message through violence.

I personally find it to be a sad senseless outdated cultural practice , no matter what the message is.

I find absolutely nothing powerful about killing oneself without taking a whole bunch of your enemies out at the same time.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#52

Post by yumraj »

rigden33 wrote: post #44
peppertree wrote: post #19

What would be the endgame for Tibetan independence. I can see it going straight to theocracy.

Well good for you cause the Tibetan Government in Exile and the Dalai Lama do not want independence. https://tibet.net/important-issues/the-middle-way-policy/

Of course they do want the independence, why would they not. It's just that after decades of occupation and China's economic rise, they feel that that is an impossible goal, at least until China implodes like the USSR did - which may or may not ever happen.

So, they are asking for the next best option as a compromise - even the proposal is called middle-way for it is a compromise.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#53

Post by skilled »

I lived in Dharamshala (home to the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government-in-exile) for 3 months a few years ago. My partner at the time went back to the US to visit family, and I didn't want to leave Asia so I went there since I had some interest in Buddhism at the time, too.

In random book stores, I met actual monks who had served time (in China) as political prisoners. One of which had also written a book about it. It was kind of funny to walk in into a book store, see these two guys drinking tea and then get pulled into a conversation out of curiosity. But, as for the stories themselves, probably not that funny. Some of the people (monks, mostly) had physical scars and their stories were anything but fun.

I also went to their offices (a modest distance away from the Dalai Lama temple, but very walkable) and got to speak to senior officials there. I asked them basics questions like, "What do you think is the future for Tibet?" and they were very accommodating.

We had tea, laughed and talked life. At first they thought I was a journalist, which was hilarious since my approach was very blunt but curious at the same time.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#54

Post by latchkey »

WithinReason wrote: post #11

The most famous self-immolation is of Thích Quảng Đức (photo): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%9...

I lived very close to there and drove by the location every day. It is on a very busy street where you would never imagine that something like this would have happened. It wasn't until a local pointed it out to me that I realized what it was. The monument is beautiful.

https://goo.gl/maps/k2dsRfHeNXYW2My2A

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#55

Post by lordnacho »

yumraj wrote: post #39
peppertree wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are we going to do when Tibetans are ravaged by a theocratic government? Air drop some freedom and democracy. And maybe a few flag emojis on twitter.

What is wrong with a theocratic government if the people want it and it suits their way of life, especially if it is a peaceful spiritual way of life and makes people happy. Last I checked Bhutan, which is also Buddhist, was doing well. Also, I hope you're not saying that the way of the China/CCP is better than how Tibetans were before Chinese invasion. I don't think they were ever ravaged , unless you're referring t…

What's wrong with theocracy? Really?

How about that you can't change it very easily once you have it? Or that it's based on authority, mostly of a small set of people? Or that religious issues have caused the slaughter of millions of people?

Are you really abandoning liberal democracy because you happen to have found a religion you like?

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#56

Post by stjohnswarts »

yumraj wrote: post #25
peppertree wrote: post #19

What would be the endgame for Tibetan independence. I can see it going straight to theocracy.

It's for them, as in Tibetans, to decide, not China, not CCP nor anyone else.

Is it really though? Does this generation get to decide that all generations following it should live under a theocratic dictatorship? I'm not sure that's a whole lot better than Chinese control. Anyone who thinks the old Tibetan monarchy/aristocrat system was a good form of government should really read up on it and not just assume it was paradise for the Tibetan people. They still had serfs and slaves.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#57

Post by dash2 »

peppertree wrote: post #46
yumraj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with a theocratic government if the people want it and it suits their way of life, especially if it is a peaceful spiritual way of life and makes people happy. Last I checked Bhutan, which is also Buddhist, was doing well. Also, I hope you're not saying that the way of the China/CCP is better than how Tibetans were before Chinese invasion. I don't think they were ever ravaged , unless you're referring t…

Bhutan government has done some brutal things to Nepalis in the 90's. Catholic church was much worse when it had actual power. State propaganda can be overwhelming to weak minds but a little history lesson can cure it. To be clear I'm not for CCP or any autocracy. I'm against theocracy.

I wonder why you think Tibet would become a theocracy if it were independent. I don't think the current Dalai Lama would support that. Many places were not democratic before falling under foreign rule, but became democratic afterwards.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#58

Post by stjohnswarts »

lordnacho wrote: post #55
yumraj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with a theocratic government if the people want it and it suits their way of life, especially if it is a peaceful spiritual way of life and makes people happy. Last I checked Bhutan, which is also Buddhist, was doing well. Also, I hope you're not saying that the way of the China/CCP is better than how Tibetans were before Chinese invasion. I don't think they were ever ravaged , unless you're referring t…

What's wrong with theocracy? Really? How about that you can't change it very easily once you have it? Or that it's based on authority, mostly of a small set of people? Or that religious issues have caused the slaughter of millions of people? Are you really abandoning liberal democracy because you happen to have found a religion you like?

They force others to believe as they do and likely any nonbelievers are either jailed or become rejected by society at large as untouchables. That seems as bad as most dictatorships, barring outright torture and indiscriminate execution for going against the state.

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#59

Post by throwaway158497 »

treis wrote: post #24
zozbot234 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a big mess. The major rivers of India and China all originate in Tibet, so having that whole area be under the control of either one of these two actors is a recipe for ongoing stability concerns in the region.

That doesn't seem right. The North/East borders of India, Nepal, and Bhutan are along the Himalayas. Any river that flows in India should start on India's side of the mountains.

True. But sometimes there are small openings in the hills which are enough for rivers to rush through. Brahmaputra starts near Tibet, but enters India in the state of Arunachal Pradesh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmaputra_River#/media/File:...

Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest

#60

Post by stjohnswarts »

orangepurple wrote: post #22
peppertree wrote: post #19

What would be the endgame for Tibetan independence. I can see it going straight to theocracy.

Self-determination

Is it really self determination if you swap out one group of despots for another rather than installing a democracy?
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