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Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

dontasktoask.com

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Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#371

Post by corobo »

ddaalluu2 wrote: post #39
corobo wrote: post #9

This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…

It does stem from IRC. But I can't remeber where it was that I first read that rule and the link to this domain

I’d imagine this domain might ring a bell in that case

http://mywiki.wooledge.org/NetEtiquette#Just_ask_the_questio...

Also famed for the “XY problem” that nerds always assume now wanting to look clever, often used incorrectly

http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#372

Post by [deleted] »

corobo wrote: post #19
charcircuit wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still have your small talk. Just put it in the same message. Getting pinged for "hey" and then they spend several minutes typing was a waste of pining me when they could have just prepended "hey" to the full message.

I hate small talk more than you do. Promise. The logic here is if you're heading through hell, speedrun it

[deleted]

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#373

Post by [deleted] »

oytis wrote: post #80
corobo wrote: post #9

This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…

It's quite an assumption that people who dislike this kind of meaningless introductions are neuroatypical. I for one would more likely "ask to ask" in an offline situation, but wouldn't do it when sending a text message, because only the former makes any sense.

[deleted]

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#374

Post by corobo »

oytis wrote: post #80
corobo wrote: post #9

This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…

It's quite an assumption that people who dislike this kind of meaningless introductions are neuroatypical. I for one would more likely "ask to ask" in an offline situation, but wouldn't do it when sending a text message, because only the former makes any sense.

Is it wrong? I’ve only got my experiences to go by and I absolutely hate this social foreplay bollocks

ADHD inattentive for context, I just know you’re gonna come off looking like an ass if you force this sort of thing on anyone outside of a 2004 IRC channel

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#375

Post by corobo »

kashyapc wrote: post #307
corobo wrote: post #9

This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…

Hi, in my case, it's not for the reasons you imply. I'm perfectly comfortable with and appreciate the importance of the "small-talk handshake", which is more critical in person. That said, avoiding "naked pings"[1] online is a matter of reducing the amount of mental drain for me. This is especially important for your sanity if you're actively helping out folks on a chat channel (community, or internal). As noted in m…

So I had to click through a link to find out you’re ok with, but prefer not to get, naked pings. Naked pings I had to click through a further link to find the full definition assuming I didn’t know what you were talking about

And I’m not even trying to ask you a question! See how much faff this sort of thing is?

If people doing that is non-facetiously testing your sanity, don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm, stop helping people!

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#376

Post by chousuke »

corobo wrote: post #369
chousuke wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a neurodiverse person want a conversation devoid of mood and feeling? Maybe their feelings just work differently and you can't understand them. Polling people with non-informative questions is a good way to distract them for no reason if they can't help you. I think that's impolite. As someone with ADHD, that can be disruptive and at times gets extremely frustrating because I can easily lose half an hour to…

Personally it’s because I find conversations full of mood and feeling kinda boring, usually very light in substance and often gossip based Also ADHD (inattentive) for what it’s worth. I understand the problem, I’m saying this solution is ineffective and just comes off a bit bellendary You’re just gonna come off as some Big Bang Theory Sheldon-type asshat by giving people a massive document to read before they can bes…

To me conversations with substance are full of mood and feeling. I love it when I can talk about something and get actual understanding in response, or when a person talks to me and I can relate to what they're trying to express. I don't know where the "mood and feeling" is in random pleasantries and small talk; they feel empty to me.

As for prompts, it's not like you need to write a novel about what you want to discuss, just include something.

For example, when asking for help:

Bad: "Hi" -- This demands my attention because I don't know what it's about, forcing me to respond and wait for the other person. Distraction and annoyance are practically guaranteed if I ignore it. I consider this kind of opener extremely rude, because to my brain it can be functionally equivalent to screaming "GIVE ME YOUR ATTENTION NOW".

Better: "Hi! I need help with X, can you help?" -- This is a request for attention, but I can at least decide if I'm interested and if I'm too busy I can respond with "No" or "Probably, but not right now.", which is satisfactory for my brain and doesn't distract me.

Best: "Hi! X is doing A when I try to do Y and I need B, can you help?" -- I may be able to solve the problem right away, which is the best outcome.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#377

Post by _8j50 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #366
_8j50 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your chat client not have a do not disturb mode? That's why i said have a chatroom for support. It's not just devs that use computers. This is how any office worker or random discord community talk. You can also ignore the interruption. I use to think like you until I jumped to security where people sometimes avoid responding when you bring up a task they need to implement (like patching something). I just drop…

> forced to respond That is exactly why it is an asshole move. You are starting off with the assumption that they will behave unprofessionally before they've done anything to warrant it. > Sometimes I would have a technical matter to ask about and there are multiple people to ask. I am not copy pasting the same question and having 5 people waste time answering. I will drop a Hi and ask the first person who responds.…

> That is exactly why it is an asshole move. You are starting off with the assumption that they will behave unprofessionally before they've done anything to warrant it.

No, that's just how conversation happens IRL. If you think someone will ignore a phone call you show up to their office in person where they can't ignore you. All of your complaint also applies to people walking up to you and greeting you before asking questions except in chat you can delay your response.

> So instead you waste five people's time because they don't know someone else already answered your question

Did you read what I said? It's the opposite of that. How can it waste their time when there is still no question. Are you referring to having to reply with a "Hi" as a time waste??

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#378

Post by elviejo »

mythrwy wrote: post #289
ravenstine wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loathe phatic expressions in general, but yeah, over chat with someone you don't know is about as bad as it gets. It would be great if people actually meant the question, but they almost never do.

One good way to head that off is to go ahead and answer the question. "Well, my Lumbago is acting up and I have this new cat who won't use the litter box. His name is Sammy because he looks kind of like Sammy Davis Jr. I'll post some pictures later. Of Sammy, not the litter box failure. Also I have this nephew I think is on pot. My sister is really worried but she's always worrying about stuff. It's probably because…

I'll try this next time!! Thank you!

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#379

Post by Smaug123 »

notyourwork wrote: post #361
Smaug123 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm regularly on a support rota as first-line triage for things which have just started going wrong. I need to be interrupted for important things, but I would strongly prefer not to be interrupted for unimportant things, because undivided attention is very scarce on such a rota; doubling the number of messages while we perform the SYN-ACK dance doubles the number of interruptions. Setting my status to "does not rece…

Sorry my teammates, peers and coworkers are not shopkeepers. If that is how you interact with your co-workers I don't want to work on your team.

I feel like this is supposed to be an insult, but I really don't know what the difference is between "someone wants me to do something for them" and "someone wants me to do something for them in a shop". There are plenty of opportunities for socialising that aren't "when everyone is trying to get stuff done".

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#380

Post by Aaargh20318 »

zajio1am wrote: post #299
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #128

I don’t think people do this because they want to be polite. The ‘hello’ is basically the start of what is the human equivalent of the TCP three way handshake. - Hello (SYN) > Hi (ACK) - How are you doing ? (SYN, ACK) Basically, they are trying to set up a synchronous channel over what is essentially an asynchronous medium. This is even more annoying than just slowing down the answer, they are demanding your undivide…

> Basically, they are trying to set up a synchronous channel over what is essentially an asynchronous medium. Yes, it is just a workaround for missing features of explicit seession begin/end that are in other mediums. > This is even more annoying than just slowing down the answer, they are demanding your undivided attention during the conversation. Why is that annoying? IMHO it is a sensible trade - i offer my undivi…

It’s annoying because IM is not supposed to be synchronous. Treat it like e-mail. Send a message, and you’ll get a reply at some point, you don’t sit around in your mail app waiting for a reply.
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