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Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

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Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#331

Post by yucky »

jacquesm wrote: post #287
yucky wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Could you please stop spouting Russian propaganda at every step? Russia has a far bigger Neo Nazi problem then Ukraine, on top of that it isn't exactly the Ukranian Neo Nazi's that are currently invading another country to slaughter their citizens. Neo Nazi's are unfortunately all too common, in the context of Ukraine they are merely a very convenient excuse to invade another sovereign country.

Help me understand what I said that is Russian propaganda. I don't think anybody denies the Ukrainian Azov Battalion is clearly Neo-Nazi. Are you saying this is one of those things that is best left unsaid, since it is an uncomfortable truth? Is that what makes it propaganda in your mind? Because nobody denies the accuracy of it.

It's especially odd that you call it Russian propaganda since in the same sentence I call out the Russians for invading a sovereign country.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#332

Post by blibble »

8note wrote: post #291
jfengel wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those threatened to become nuclear wars. While nuclear-armed nations have been at war, there was never any real suggestion that nuclear weapons would be used. Also, Facebook has become increasingly conscious over the past half-decade or so of the role that it plays in events. It has already changed its policies to be more activist in preventing the use of its platform for advocating violence. That decision fo…

Nuclear powers have been involved in wars since 2004. There's no reason to think that the US would not use nukes if war stopped going in their favour

it is not in the interest of the US to normalise the use of nuclear weapons in tactical scenarios

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#333

Post by chimpansteve »

hiyer wrote: post #307

I wonder if Facebook would be equally lenient to, say, Palestinians calling for violence against Israeli soldiers; or Houthis calling for violence against Saudi Arabian ones.

Or indeed the New York Post posting a factually correct article about a laptop.

Incidentally, as someone from the UK who was unfortunate enough to have him as my MP for years, I'll also point out that Nick Clegg is one of the most craven, cowardly, pathetic pieces of corporate slime in existence. Almost antipathetically opposed to the concept of "principles" because they get in the way of his grubbing for cash from any source imaginable

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#334

Post by elliekelly »

Lascaille wrote: post #327
jasonshaev wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the 1st amendment grants private companies the right to police content within their purview. Preventing them from doing so is in itself a violation of the 1st amendment. Thus, in my opinion, the suggestion that private companies should NOT police content, despite their explicit 1st amendment right to do so, is antithetical to the 1st amendment.

So the 1st amendment's wrong. Fix it somehow. Landline telephone companies are obliged by their terms of licence to serve all customers in their coverage area (i.e they can't deny the KKK a landline.) There's precedent for forcing companies to provide a certain service. Just write a law. Find or invent a justification and write a law.

We could nationalize facebook. That would fix all of the problems you’ve described. It would also create a lot of new ones...

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#335

Post by moltke »

kordlessagain wrote: post #325
moltke wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When do we get to say "death to Mexican gangsters?"

You don't. Invaders implies armed occupying forces causing harm. "Invaders" is a more clear identifier than "gangster", given some gangsters may only sell drugs, not carry guns or use them to inflict direct harm. Of course one could argue selling drugs is causing harm, but choice of ingestion of the drug is a distinct and challenging topic in and of its own. Also, the two can't be conflated (well) and the origin of t…

>armed occupying forces causing harm.

I don't see how that definition is incompatible with what many of the gangs are doing to southern Texas and California.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#336

Post by woodada »

yucky wrote: post #331
jacquesm wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please stop spouting Russian propaganda at every step? Russia has a far bigger Neo Nazi problem then Ukraine, on top of that it isn't exactly the Ukranian Neo Nazi's that are currently invading another country to slaughter their citizens. Neo Nazi's are unfortunately all too common, in the context of Ukraine they are merely a very convenient excuse to invade another sovereign country.

Help me understand what I said that is Russian propaganda. I don't think anybody denies the Ukrainian Azov Battalion is clearly Neo-Nazi. Are you saying this is one of those things that is best left unsaid, since it is an uncomfortable truth? Is that what makes it propaganda in your mind? Because nobody denies the accuracy of it. It's especially odd that you call it Russian propaganda since in the same sentence I cal…

You said:

> Are you referring to the Ukrainian Azov Battalion with their Nazi ideology, or the Russians who have invaded a sovereign country? > The choice may seem simple to you, but it's not as easy as you might think for many to side with avowed Nazi's either..

What you're implying is that there is some moral justification to invading Ukraine if the goal is to eliminate the Nazi Azov battalion. That is false -- there is no justification at all. The reason is that if you applied this standard equally to all countries (i.e. "if x% of population is Nazi, then invade"), then you could invade 90%+(just to be conservative) of the countries in the world: how many people are there in the Azov battalion? 2k? 3k? 5k? Ukraine has a population of 44 million. How many Nazis are there in the United States? How many Nazis are there in Germany? How many Nazis are there in Mongolia? And how many Nazis are there in Russia itself? If you're not planning to "de-naizify" all of them, then "de-nazification" is but a meaningless excuse to your invasion, aka -- propaganda.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#337

Post by meatsauce »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #186

I wonder if, like I, people see the word "Russia" and think it means two distinct things: the mobsters and their network of organized embezzling and crime and terror to protect themselves who currently control the Kremlin, and the millions of innocent people along for the ride. Seems Russia has this tail recursive shitty luck of essentially mobsters raping the country for well over a century.

Organized embezzling

Crime

Corruption

These words summarize the Ukraine in the same manner.

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#338

Post by trhway »

8note wrote: post #298
trhway wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a genocidal war because Ukrainians are being killed and displaced for refusal to accept a Russian identity. Putin is pretty clear in denying to Ukrainians their identity and statehood. His plans for Ukrainians are like that of Hitler who wanted that land too for Slavic people - displacement and killing of resisting ones, conversion to "Russian" identity for the rest on those lands with limited statehood under c…

Is it a Russian identity, or being a russian vassal that's required? Denial of sovereignty isn't genocide

>Denial of sovereignty isn't genocide

The denial of sovereignty here is just a tool to achieve the goal Putin openly declared in particular in his editorial and speeches - erasing of Ukrainians national identity. In order to achieve that goal he kills and displaces carriers of that national and ethnic identity, ie. Ukrainians, and that is genocide.

This is what Russia exactly does in Ukraine:

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

" In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; "

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#339

Post by yucky »

woodada wrote: post #336
yucky wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand what I said that is Russian propaganda. I don't think anybody denies the Ukrainian Azov Battalion is clearly Neo-Nazi. Are you saying this is one of those things that is best left unsaid, since it is an uncomfortable truth? Is that what makes it propaganda in your mind? Because nobody denies the accuracy of it. It's especially odd that you call it Russian propaganda since in the same sentence I cal…

You said: > Are you referring to the Ukrainian Azov Battalion with their Nazi ideology, or the Russians who have invaded a sovereign country? > The choice may seem simple to you, but it's not as easy as you might think for many to side with avowed Nazi's either.. What you're implying is that there is some moral justification to invading Ukraine if the goal is to eliminate the Nazi Azov battalion. That is false -- the…

The comment was in response to the statement that "the choice was clear" on who should be supported. Except it's not. There is a lot of blame to go around, it's been abundantly clear for 25 years that NATO expansion to Ukraine & Georgia would result in war[1]. So when we have continually pushed for that, we have been pushing for war.

Also, we can't ignore the US-backed Ukrainian coup/revolution in 2014[2] which then resulted in the invasion of Crimea. Nor can we ignore that after the democratically elected government in Ukraine was removed via that coup/revolution, that the US handpicked the post-coup leadership in Ukraine and helped rewrite the Constitution to put NATO membership back on the table, knowing this would antagonize Russia.[3]

Should we not consider all of these things? Russia is clearly being the aggressor now that they have decided to invade Ukraine, but that didn't happen in a vacuum. Our actions in the West are what has led to this, either intentionally or though incompetence. Ignoring everything that happened before February 24th is ignorant.

[1] https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/o...

[2] https://apnews.com/article/970e8e54b3df46eab593e9e11beb056d

[3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-a...

Re: Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook

#340

Post by trhway »

_-david-_ wrote: post #200
trhway wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a genocidal war because Ukrainians are being killed and displaced for refusal to accept a Russian identity. Putin is pretty clear in denying to Ukrainians their identity and statehood. His plans for Ukrainians are like that of Hitler who wanted that land too for Slavic people - displacement and killing of resisting ones, conversion to "Russian" identity for the rest on those lands with limited statehood under c…

Russians are also dying. That means Ukraine is committing genocide on the Russians, right?

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

Now show an official Ukraine policy documents declaring targeting Russians based on Russian national or ethnic identity. A pattern of such activity without official policy documents would do to. Though for example the fact that mostly Russians are killed in the invading tanks doesn't qualify because it is just happens that the tanks are manned mostly by Russians and those Russians are killed not for being Russians, they are killed for driving invading tanks.

For the current genocide conducted by Russia in Ukraine Putin's editorial and speeches, including the speech declaring the war, declaring erasure of Ukrainian national and ethnic identity are such official policy documents.

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