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China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

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Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#411

Post by bicepjai »

msravi wrote: post #358
floucky wrote: post #273

The propaganda is also very strong on Chinese social media (especially Wechat). I leave in France and I know a few Chinese person that keep telling me that this war was mainly caused by USA, that the Ukraine president is a dictator and so on...

Oh, the irony! As an Indian, reading nytimes and bbc articles about India was a real eye opener on how much propaganda is passed off as 'opinion' and 'news' in the western press. I mean, the confidence and elan with which a narrative is pushed by blatantly hiding contrarian views and even facts is fascinating to observe, especially when you're on the ground looking at stuff firsthand. You really need to experience it…

Give us an example that supports your argument ? Opinion pieces are what they are subjective opinions

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#412

Post by albertopv »

msravi wrote: post #358
floucky wrote: post #273

The propaganda is also very strong on Chinese social media (especially Wechat). I leave in France and I know a few Chinese person that keep telling me that this war was mainly caused by USA, that the Ukraine president is a dictator and so on...

Oh, the irony! As an Indian, reading nytimes and bbc articles about India was a real eye opener on how much propaganda is passed off as 'opinion' and 'news' in the western press. I mean, the confidence and elan with which a narrative is pushed by blatantly hiding contrarian views and even facts is fascinating to observe, especially when you're on the ground looking at stuff firsthand. You really need to experience it…

Ypu know why west is different from Russia or China? Russian embassy in Italy retweeted an italian newspaper editorial from 'Il Fatto Quotidiano' backing russian story. In Italy you can say almost anything. Is it the same in Russia (15 years of prison for "false news" law) or China (HK is no more "two system, one country" despite 1997 international agreement)?

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#413

Post by sofixa »

bigcat123 wrote: post #401
stjohnswarts wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same in Indian news in reference to the USA. All country's news are slanted towards their populous. However in countries like China and Russia they print straight up lies.

I am amused that one who know neither Chinese and Russian languages confidently claim that their media are lying, based on the reporting that one knows as biased. Let's put in this way. One saw a black box. One was told that the black box contains some nasty staff. One knows that the above statement is biased. One then claim that the black box contains the nasty thing. See how bias anchored one's thought, even if cle…

You know that Russian and Chinese media have English versions, and Google Translate and similar can be used to translate the original versions? The absolutely publish complete bullshit.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#414

Post by brigandish »

car_analogy wrote: post #387
msravi wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, the irony! As an Indian, reading nytimes and bbc articles about India was a real eye opener on how much propaganda is passed off as 'opinion' and 'news' in the western press. I mean, the confidence and elan with which a narrative is pushed by blatantly hiding contrarian views and even facts is fascinating to observe, especially when you're on the ground looking at stuff firsthand. You really need to experience it…

I don't doubt you, but examples would greatly help.

I thought the reporting on the near-nuclear incident gave a good contrast, as I first read it in the Telegraph[tele], then checked it in the Guardian[graun], had a look at Reuters (not sure what the link was), then looked at Russia Today[RT]. The main difference I found was that the western media was more alarmist and buried the lede[1] that the fire wasn't actually going to lead to a nuclear accident. Russia Today's reporting was much calmer and put things like that nearer the top (going by my recollection).

For example, the Guardian's headline:

> World ‘narrowly averted a nuclear catastrophe’, says US envoy to UN after Russia attack on Ukraine atomic plant - as it happened

Whereas Russia Today's headline and first line are:

> Ukraine accuses Russia of ‘shelling’ nuclear plant

> A fire broke out on Friday morning in a training building adjacent to the six-reactor Zaporozhskaya Nuclear Power Plant (NPP), which local Ukrainian authorities have blamed on shelling by Russian troops.

The Telegraph has this quote a way down the page[2]:

> "For the moment, we know that all these dangers (that there had been concern about) haven't materialised but that the fire was contained to an administration building."

I was genuinely shocked and worried when I read the Telegraph, until I saw the bit about the building, and then I see that RT is making that the important part of their reporting.

I'm not picking a side here, nor trying to dismiss genuine worries (I still think the fire was too close for comfort), however, I think it's interesting to see the ways the same events are reported on, and it's something I think should be allowed, at the very least to counter accusations of censorship in aid of propaganda.

[1] that phrase implies intention, I can't confirm that, of course.

[2] I know it's a "live blog" page but that wouldn't stop them putting the info in the summary at the top, nor dialling down the scary language.

[tele]: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/04/russia-ukr...

[RT]: https://www.rt.com/russia/551189-ukraine-zaporozhskaya-nucle...

[graun]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/04/ukraine-n...

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#415

Post by sofixa »

dragonwriter wrote: post #336
jlduan wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is overly simplification. I think the sentiment in China is really not about supporting Russia; it is about anti-US. Because quite a lot of people in China think US is organizing an Eastern NATO, to "destabilize" the whole region. For example, the nuclear-powered marine deal with Australia, etc. Biden’s first year was much harsher on China than Russia. In 1999, NATO bombed the Chinese embassy, killing 3, that cert…

> Because quite a lot of people in China think US is organizing an Eastern NATO, to "destabilize" the whole region. We had one of those, it was called SEATO. There's been only negative progress since on that front. > For example, the nuclear-powered marine deal with Australia AUKUS involved countries already in NATO-like agreements with the US (UK is in NATO, Australia in ANZUS) so it doesn't really change much in te…

> AUKUS involved countries already in NATO-like agreements with the US (UK is in NATO, Australia in ANZUS) so it doesn't really change much in terms of security alignment.

It does, because it pissed off France ( which also has territory in the Pacific) for no good reason, and also stated that the choice of nuclear subs is due to the Chinese threat. And also it pushed the delivery date of new Australian submarines by at least a decade, probably more.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#416

Post by sofixa »

droptablemain wrote: post #153
waffleiron wrote: post #13

> Many of the ads, which are mostly clips of CGTN newscasts, sprinkle in pro-Russia, anti-NATO talking points and downplay Russia's actions in launching an unprovoked invasion of its neighbor. So what exactly did they say?

"unprovoked invasion of its neighbor" -- have you not heard of the 14,000 killed in Donbass over the last eight years?

And what were they doing in Ukraine to get themselves killed?

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#417

Post by Valakas_ »

msravi wrote: post #358
floucky wrote: post #273

The propaganda is also very strong on Chinese social media (especially Wechat). I leave in France and I know a few Chinese person that keep telling me that this war was mainly caused by USA, that the Ukraine president is a dictator and so on...

Oh, the irony! As an Indian, reading nytimes and bbc articles about India was a real eye opener on how much propaganda is passed off as 'opinion' and 'news' in the western press. I mean, the confidence and elan with which a narrative is pushed by blatantly hiding contrarian views and even facts is fascinating to observe, especially when you're on the ground looking at stuff firsthand. You really need to experience it…

At least we don't get jailed for speaking out, so dissenting opinions are still able to come out. That's the difference.

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#418

Post by Gravityloss »

jlduan wrote: post #361
Gravityloss wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eastern NATO? Sounds like something many smaller countries in the region would love to join, to secure each other against a large expansionistic neighboring country.

It might come as a surprise to you. But a lot of countries in Asia consider US and China are both bullies. Just look how many Asia countries joined the US-lead economic sanction/coercion. Very few.

Yeah, so why does the US have to be involved? The countries could co-operate on their own?

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#419

Post by paganel »

phicoh wrote: post #354
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pivot to Asia is what Russia actually needs (and needed, even before the war), Europe is a stagnating continent with a stagnating economy. I venture to say that in the long run this will benefit Russia (if they manage to remain in one piece, that is), because the growth can only come from there, i.e. from Asia. You're mentioning China/India/Russia like they might be some minions, but taken together they have a popu…

This seems like a weird argument. Russia was in a great position selling natural gas to Europe. Alternatives to Russian gas are quite a bit more expensive, so they were getting a good price. Russia could afford to limit exports to China. Without exports to Europa, Russia would be completely at the mercy of China. Russia only has a tiny economy compared to China, so if China decides to play games, there is not much Ru…

Selling only natural gas, even at very expensive prices, doesn't get you anywhere, long term, Putin knows as much that's why in the last few years Russia tried to make a conscious effort not to depend on oil and gas as an economy anymore (if I'm not mistaken the share of oil&gas in the Russian economy has gone down from about 14% to about 8-9% in the last few years, I'm too lazy to search for the exact Economist article where I had read that).

> Russia only has a tiny economy compared to China, so if China decides to play games,

From Putin's perspective, or whomever will take his place, it's better to be at China's mercy compared to being at the West's mercy (as present economic sanctions demonstrate it was the case), as in China and Russia are a lot more close, ideologically speaking, compared with how Russia and the West compare. And Russia still has and will have nukes, there's no way for China to take some piece of Russia's Far East (which I know you didn't mention but is a point often made when it comes to the Russia-China relation).

Re: China's state media buys Meta ads pushing Russia's line on war

#420

Post by throwaway4good »

dorgo wrote: post #374
throwaway4good wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside the west, there is a massive world that just sees things differently. Here the US is not a force for good but a warmongering empire. Think of it what you will but it would be wrong to discard it as mere propaganda. These are deeply held beliefs.

Isn't propaganda the perfect tool to create deeply held beliefs? I would even go as far as to say that propaganda is the only way to have deeply held beliefs. But maybe my definition of propaganda is too broad.

No. It comes from history and lived experience. I have met countless Serbs who lived in the west for decades, all being deeply bitter and cynical about the breakup of Yugoslavia and the role the US played in it.
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