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Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

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Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#121

Post by Radix »

hartror wrote: post #32
steve_b wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty harsh. I bet you Huxley's original notes for Doors Of Perception were probably jumbled too. But both DoP and Mark's notes allude to the same thing: without a valve on our consciousness, we'd just sit around all day and be blown away by the creases in our jeans. Edit: oh ya, and thanks for sharing Mark.

Seconded, thanks for sharing Mark. A number of friends have gone through life altering trips such as you describe, there appear to be positive things that can be gleaned from psychedelics about oneself. That said I had one friend who didn't come back and ended up in an institution for a period of months. He had a number of underlying issues that the drug brought to the fore. It was a horrible experience for all invol…

Would you elaborate on this? Did he come out of it twelve months in? it's rare to find negative commentary on psilocybin on the internet. Only a couple warnings in the thread now.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#122

Post by nate_meurer »

edtechre wrote: post #61
swombat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like exactly the kind of close-minded person who would benefit from a hallucinogenic trip. The reality is, you have no idea what a trip is like. You're building an image of what it might be like based on your own actual experiences, and it seems pretty lame, but that image is just that: an image; a picture; not the real thing. And, much like life cannot be experienced just by looking at pictures, drugs cann…

Flawless logic here. I guess I should try crack, heroine, or maybe downing some motor oil before coming to the conclusion they're not for me?

Right, because psychedelics affect the brain in similar ways to motor oil, glue, crack, etc. Nothing new to see here, huh?

Seriously, you claim to endorse learning, but you appear to have neglected to research this subject before posting.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#124

Post by swombat »

edtechre wrote: post #61
swombat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like exactly the kind of close-minded person who would benefit from a hallucinogenic trip. The reality is, you have no idea what a trip is like. You're building an image of what it might be like based on your own actual experiences, and it seems pretty lame, but that image is just that: an image; a picture; not the real thing. And, much like life cannot be experienced just by looking at pictures, drugs cann…

Flawless logic here. I guess I should try crack, heroine, or maybe downing some motor oil before coming to the conclusion they're not for me?

If you can figure out ways to try crack, heroin and motor oil safely, with no harmful physical side-effects and no risk of addiction, then why not? What's wrong with trying them? Do you have an ideological opposition to new experiences?

The problem with crack, heroin and motor oil is that two of them are relatively likely to get you addicted and then damage your body as you abuse them, and one is likely to kill you outright if consumed.

Psylocibin and LSD, on the other hand, are basically harmless (at a reasonable dose) from a physical standpoint, and non-addictive. So what's your rationale for not trying them?

You might argue you won't try them because most people won't try them - well, that may be a point, but a lot of people have tried hallucinogenics, especially in the 60s, and the vast (99.99+%) majority had a good time, is perfectly fine and was happy about the experience. So social proof isn't your reasoning for not trying them.

Which leaves the law. Perhaps you won't try them because they're illegal. Fine. Would you not try tomatoes if they were illegal? If you would try tomatoes even though they might be illegal, then what's the big deal about hallucinogenics?

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#125

Post by shabble »

YosefLevi wrote: post #98
michaelochurch wrote: post #96

A few things I'm going to say. First, these drugs aren't "hallucinogens". They're psychedelics (mind-revealing). A hallucination is a false perception which the person believes to be real; visuals are perceptions that the person knows are not real, such as "light shows". Except at very high doses, these drugs don't produce hallucinations per se . Other drugs can, but LSD and psilocybin generally do not. Ok, that may…

Hey there michaelochurch. I read through your post and noticed one verse that mentioned that many people do not distinguish between types of drug users. Perhaps you may have already come across the article, but if not, I would recommend Shedler and Block's (1990) article to you. They also have discussions on personality antecedents to different types of relationships to drugs (abstaining, experimenting, abusing), esp…

If I were to categorise in broad strokes, I'd probably distinguish between recreational (euphorics, narcotics), self-medication of psychological issues (anxiolytics, mood stabilisers) or physical issues (stimulants, nootropics), and self-discovery/awareness (psychedelics, entheogens).

The actual substances used in any of these roles are to some degree interchangeable. Those who consume psychedelics for the purpose of examining themselves from a different mind-state differ quite significantly from those who use the same molecule to zone out and watch the internal light show. The primary factors would be intent, and responsibility.

Is "Adolescent drug use and psychological health. A longitudinal inquiry." ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2350080 ) the article you're referring to?

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#126

Post by shabble »

gyardley wrote: post #118
michaelochurch wrote: post #96

A few things I'm going to say. First, these drugs aren't "hallucinogens". They're psychedelics (mind-revealing). A hallucination is a false perception which the person believes to be real; visuals are perceptions that the person knows are not real, such as "light shows". Except at very high doses, these drugs don't produce hallucinations per se . Other drugs can, but LSD and psilocybin generally do not. Ok, that may…

There's just one thing I'm going to say, which young people also should know - are you sure what you're buying is what you think it is? The one time I tried 'LSD', it wasn't.

Various harm-reduction organisations like DanceSafe[1] offer testing kits that can be used to determine the primary agent and any significant adulterants[2].

There are also testing labs which process anonymous samples sent by post and determine the active agents. For example, http://www.ecstasydata.org/ Due to the complicated issues of the legality of illegal drug analysis, they can provide only ratios of active agents, rather than quantifiable values[3].

A quick look doesn't turn up any testing kits for LSD detection (or rather, the only ones that do are intended for testing people, rather than the drug itself)

[1] http://dancesafe.org/

[2] http://dancesafe.org/products/testing-kits/complete-adultera...

[3] http://www.ecstasydata.org/about_data.php#quant

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#127

Post by shabble »

sophacles wrote: post #97
throwaway7-2521 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat odd to have used OJ as the mixer; vitamin-C is often considered to accelerate the breakdown of psychoactive substances (especially those like MDMA and LSD), so would normally be avoided until you feel you're 'done' and want things to end.

I've always been told it enhances the experience... Anyway, it doesn't follow that faster breakdown makes the trip end... could be that the very process of breaking down the active substance produces the effects desired, and the vitamin-C acts as a catalyst to "even out" the experience.

You might be confusing the OJ/vitamin C with the properties of grapefruit juice, which is well-established to alter the properties of various liver enzymes, particularly those which typically metabolise psychedelic / hallucinogenic drugs. Wikipedia has a brief blurb about it: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_drugs...

Actually, it does mention orange juice as containing flavonoids which may have some (albeit lesser) effect on drug metabolism.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#129

Post by AnthonBerg »

edtechre wrote: post #61
swombat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like exactly the kind of close-minded person who would benefit from a hallucinogenic trip. The reality is, you have no idea what a trip is like. You're building an image of what it might be like based on your own actual experiences, and it seems pretty lame, but that image is just that: an image; a picture; not the real thing. And, much like life cannot be experienced just by looking at pictures, drugs cann…

Flawless logic here. I guess I should try crack, heroine, or maybe downing some motor oil before coming to the conclusion they're not for me?

There is scientific research supporting the claim that psychedelics have a positive and meaningful influence on quality of life.

Perhaps you would like to read some of these papers, and then come back with your assertions?

There is AFAIK no research that shows that crack, heroin or motor oil have similar positive effects.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#130

Post by lansing »

michaelochurch wrote: post #96

A few things I'm going to say. First, these drugs aren't "hallucinogens". They're psychedelics (mind-revealing). A hallucination is a false perception which the person believes to be real; visuals are perceptions that the person knows are not real, such as "light shows". Except at very high doses, these drugs don't produce hallucinations per se . Other drugs can, but LSD and psilocybin generally do not. Ok, that may…

Non-experience is not the only "failure mode" possible in meditation. Most practitioners find that, as with many spiritual or psychological practices, things get more difficult before they improve. Having partial insight into the nature of reality, without the non-identification that comes with awakening, can make one's suffering a lot more apparent and "real" feeling.

For more in depth discussion of the kind of insights I'm referring to, consider the Theravada tradition's map of the progress of insight, specifically stages 5-9.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/mahasi/progress.h...

Those familiar with Christian mysticism will see the parallels with St John of the Cross's "dark night of the soul."

Personally, I believe that issues I mention above apply to psychedelic use as well, i.e., it's possible to stumble into early stages of insight via drug use. This can be even trickier than when it happens via meditation, because typically drug users are not equipped with a framework to make sense of what's happening.

Does meditation on its own ever lead to things like psychosis? Well, I've practiced at a number of meditation centers in the U.S. and Asia, and I've certainly heard plenty of stories of what happens when psychologically unstable people come to do an intense period of practice...

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