Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change • Hacker News Board

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#111

Post by charlieflowers » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 2:36 PM UTC

lusr wrote: post #74

astrofinch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What book do you estimate has the greatest probability of causing lasting personality change?

"Feeling Good" by David Burns. Sounds like a pop-psych title, but it is not. At 28 years of age, I am fairly certain this is the most important book I have ever and will ever read in my entire life (but then I desperately needed it - it is the user's manual to my brain that has allowed me to debug so much of my problematic thought processes).

I will second this. I read it over 20 years ago, when I was 17, and it changed my life. It is basically a friendly introduction to how to apply cognitive therapy to yourself.

I've read a lot of books in my life that I said "Wow" about, but not many that I still say "Wow" about 20 years later.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#112

Post by icebraining » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 2:50 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #96

A few things I'm going to say. First, these drugs aren't "hallucinogens". They're psychedelics (mind-revealing). A hallucination is a false perception which the person believes to be real; visuals are perceptions that the person knows are not real, such as "light shows". Except at very high doses, these drugs don't produce hallucinations per se . Other drugs can, but LSD and psilocybin generally do not. Ok, that may…

> So, if "breaking the law" is an issue for you, there are legal drugs out there.

Just wanted to point out that despite selling grown versions is usually illegal, in many countries it's perfectly legal to buy and sell the spores of psychedelic active mushrooms (like the Psilocybe cubensis), since they don't contain the psychoactive compounds. There are a few reputed online shops that ship them to many countries. Of course, you must be willing to grow them yourself.

EROWID's law pages[1] are useful, but do proper research before buying.

[1]: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms.shtml#law

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#113

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 2:50 PM UTC

Triumvark wrote: post #78

The phrase "measured on a widely used and scientifically validated personality inventory" jumps out at me. What does that really mean? Myers-Briggs is 'widely used' and proponents would probably argue it has been 'empirically validated' (by this one study no one can reproduce...). Myers-Briggs still lacks the "retest reliability" necessary for this sort of analysis. In fact, in most personality tests, you'd expect wi…

[deleted]

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#114

Post by mshron » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 2:50 PM UTC

Triumvark wrote: post #78

The phrase "measured on a widely used and scientifically validated personality inventory" jumps out at me. What does that really mean? Myers-Briggs is 'widely used' and proponents would probably argue it has been 'empirically validated' (by this one study no one can reproduce...). Myers-Briggs still lacks the "retest reliability" necessary for this sort of analysis. In fact, in most personality tests, you'd expect wi…

They were using the "Big 5" personality inventory, which is generally considered the gold standard in personality psych. Myers-Briggs is not widely used in academia, except maybe at business schools.

Five factor models have a neat history too. They were started back in the fifties by taking questionnaire results for the appropriateness of tens of thousands of words and doing dimensionality reduction. That got down to a few hundred dimensions, then further research narrowed it down to dozens, until about thirty-forty years ago when they were narrowed down to five and subjected to more rigorous consistency checks.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#115

Post by pnathan » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 2:50 PM UTC

I am not favorable to unregulated use of drugs. I've known a couple drug-users, and been around quite a few. For whatever reason, their lives were/are not good. Success (in any realm) did not seem to be theirs. There seemed to be an unwholesomeness that pervaded their lives.

Now, that is anecdotal datum, and it is of course reasonable and plausible that an analytical and careful approach to the business produces a better effect than simply taking bong hits for the lulz.

Therapeutic drug use, IMO, should be investigated with all due scientific process and rigor.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#116

Post by icebraining » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 2:52 PM UTC

r0s wrote: post #109

mseebach wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's another reason they're prohibited as well - users tend to think a lot about interpersonal relations, society, power structures, etc. Yes, drugs are prohibited because the government is afraid that it will be brought down by junkies thinking too much about power structures.

Obviously not, but the original Controlled Substances Act, the beginning of our modern War on Drugs, can be reasonably inferred as direct response to the anti-war movement.

That Act is only in effect in the US, though, while drugs are forbidden in many countries.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#117

Post by iskander » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 2:55 PM UTC

edtechre wrote: post #28

edtechre wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of doing drugs to experience "enlightenment" (LOL), you could, I don't know... read a book and actually learn something of value.

I have no issue with whatever it is you posited after your masturbatory experience. It's just that I don't find your epiphany particularly deep, nor do I see how LSD was even necessary for you to arrive at your destination of nowhere. You know what actually makes a difference in life? Acquire knowledge, apply that knowledge, make connections and use all of that to HELP other people and change the world. Tripping on s…

This comment is below the usual standards of discourse on this site.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#118

Post by gyardley » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 3:05 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #96

A few things I'm going to say. First, these drugs aren't "hallucinogens". They're psychedelics (mind-revealing). A hallucination is a false perception which the person believes to be real; visuals are perceptions that the person knows are not real, such as "light shows". Except at very high doses, these drugs don't produce hallucinations per se . Other drugs can, but LSD and psilocybin generally do not. Ok, that may…

There's just one thing I'm going to say, which young people also should know - are you sure what you're buying is what you think it is?

The one time I tried 'LSD', it wasn't.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#119

Post by Cushman » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 3:05 PM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #66

mistermann wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a reason why drugs are prohibited in many countries. People don't use them "correctly" and can become messed up pretty heavily. There's another reason they're prohibited as well - users tend to think a lot about interpersonal relations, society, power structures, etc. Sorry to hear about your panic attacks, I've gone through the same thing as well, but likely a decade after I last took drugs of any kind. Th…

> There's another reason they're prohibited as well - users tend to think a lot about interpersonal relations, society, power structures, etc. Yes, drugs are prohibited because the government is afraid that it will be brought down by junkies thinking too much about power structures.

One of the (possibly) profound effects of psychedelic experiences is the dissolution of boundaries-- a heightening of the dissociative pattern matching behavior that we call human cognition to the point that everything seems relevant to everything and nothing is really different from anything else.

To an extent this is trivially true, and it certainly inspires a lot of not-too-insightful discussion about how we're all stars, man, but it can also point out the important but non-obvious fact that your neighbor is a person just like you are, having exactly the same experience of consciousness that you are, and so is the President, and so is that bum on the street, and so is that person in the country across the river that you're supposed to hate. She's just like you, and you can't hate yourself. So it shouldn't be surprising (for this reason among others) that people who smoke a lot of weed find the idea of war to be a waste of time when, really, we could all just be relaxing with some good friends, music and food.

Is it really that hard to imagine that this idea, whether brought on by drugs, education, or meditation, is threatening to the few in power who use these artificial divisions to control the many?

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#120

Post by pyre » Fri, Sep 30, 2011, 3:09 PM UTC

edtechre wrote: post #63

pyre wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know what actually makes a difference in life? Taking action makes a difference in life. People don't take action just for its own sake. They have motivations. Where do this motivations come from? Ultimately the mind. The mind can be influenced by books and general knowledge, as well as experiences. Do you contest that if one did the same thing twice (once on drugs, the other not) that those experiences would d…

You could claim the same about getting high off of glue since that affects the mind too. Seriously, what every day experience /doesn't/ affect your mind? My point stands on its own. Taking action makes a difference, dropping acid does nothing for anyone. End.

  > Taking action makes a difference, dropping acid does
  > nothing for anyone. End.

Converted to:

  > Taking action makes a difference,  does
  > nothing for anyone. End.

You could insert anything into this sentence. Heck, I could insert "reading a book" into that sentence because "reading a book" is not "taking action," yet reading a book was one of your examples of a 'good' thing to do earlier in this thread.

You're ignoring the possibility that something that 'does nothing for anyone' can directly influence someone to take actions which do something for someone. E.g. if someone drops acid/watches a documentary/reads a book and it directly inspires them to open a soup kitchen for the homeless, how does that fit into your world view? Are the two things completely separate and without causation? Or is it only the influences related to drugs which hold this place in your mind (i.e. can never have a good outcome, so therefore if there is a good outcome it can't be because of the drugs)?