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Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

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Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#281

Post by Brian_K_White »

inawarminister wrote: post #225
Razengan wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Why the emphasis on having 2 children instead of 1?

Because you need 2 children to replace their 2 parents in an assumed one husband one wife household. Of course, due to mortality we actually need more than 2. Around 2.1 - 2.4 for most developed nations IIRC. And this doesn't hold if the household have more than one wives, say.

To be clear, I don't care about or make assumptions about relationship or family structures.

Even if every human were single and babies were made in sperm banks and creches, and every human was assigned one baby from the pool to raise, you still "have" 2 kids, in the sense that you took part in the creation of 2 kids.

I don't know how this needs to be explained to any human?

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#282

Post by danhab99 »

jmyeet wrote: post #131
jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

> But what really rubs me the wrong way is when people who have chosen to steal start moralizing their position like they're standing up for some vague rights or principles

I feel like these are the same people that haven't learned how to shut up in highschool

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#283

Post by mrcheesebreeze »

jmyeet wrote: post #131
jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

this is what irks me the most, piracy is stealing and even its name says it.

If you steal then thats your problem, but its wrong morally and is gross to do without reasons.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#284

Post by danShumway »

KeytarHero wrote: post #252
danShumway wrote: post #185

There's a really surprising amount of confusion in these comments about how copyright (at least in the US) works. More confusion than I expected to see on a site like Hackernews. Emulators are legal, including emulators for current-gen systems. Switch emulation is exactly as legal as Gameboy emulation. You can argue current-gen emulators are irresponsible, you can say they're mostly used for piracy, but Nintendo does…

> Emulators are legal, including emulators for current-gen systems. Switch emulation is exactly as legal as Gameboy emulation. I know you're talking about emulators, not ROMs. But it's also worth mentioning that the legality of Switch ROMs actually is quite different from Game Boy ROMs. I was recently surprised to discover archive.org has ROMs for older systems - IANAL, but apparently this is covered by a DMCA exempt…

That's an excellent point, thanks for mentioning it. There's a lot of grey area around older ROMs specifically with the Internet Archive because if I remember correctly I think they were granted some extra privileges, but in general distributing most ROMs are illegal period even for older systems. The only way to legally own them is to rip them yourself.

And breaking DRM is usually illegal regardless of whether or not you're doing it for a legal purpose. IANAL, but I think you're right, I suspect Nintendo would probably have a much better case if they went after people showing how to rip ROMs. I have a hard time keeping up with what is and isn't an exception to the DMCA, since it changes occasionally. There are some systems like phones where showing people how to bypass DRM is legal, every once and a while a big list of exception "categories" gets decided, and anything that's not on that list is illegal to bypass DRM for and illegal to show people how to bypass DRM.

It's a little weird. Emulators are legal and for many non-encrypted systems hacking and dumping your own ROMs is legal; but breaking DRM even if you're not doing anything illegal by breaking DRM -- the act itself is often illegal, and I don't remember if an exception was ever made for consoles or not.

One thing for certain, people will say that you can buy a game and then download the ROM, and maybe you can argue it's moral, but it's not legal -- the only way to legally extract a Switch ROM is to buy a Switch, hack it, and literally extract the ROM yourself (and like you mention, even that can be of questionable legality). So we run into a situation where the emulator is legal, talking about the emulator is legal, but getting media to run on the emulator, even if you're not "stealing it" by any commonly understood definition of the term is likely illegal.

Basically it boils down to whether bypassing the DRM falls into one of the current DMCA exceptions, whether you're a library, etc... and I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know if consoles are currently on that list or not.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#285

Post by fxtentacle »

jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

My company has access to special equipment under NDA, so I might be very biased.

But my impression is that Nintendo is working super hard to keep game developers happy. And that includes working DRM. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's why you see so many games on Steam and so relatively few on Gog. And can you really fault studios who put in 100+ mio USD into financing a new game that they hate with a passion those people who play but don't pay?

Nintendo has to act strongly against emulation, or else their game development partners will be upset.

The other thing that I believe Nintendo is extremely concerned about is making things family safe. With an actual Switch, you can put it into kids mode, set a play timer, and safely hand it to your kid. That's also why they do not have a web browser.

What did you expect would happen with a video showing DRM removal, software piracy, and the ability to mix in adult content?

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#286

Post by fxtentacle »

car_analogy wrote: post #190
jmyeet wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

> A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Like PC game studios ceased to exist?

They kinda did? We now have lots of console-exclusive games precisely because of PC piracy.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#287

Post by Nullabillity »

majewsky wrote: post #266
Nullabillity wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Nintendo's hardware business would cease to exist, and the world would have a little less e-waste in it. How would that be a bad thing?

Nintendo's hardware division is undoubtedly having a positive impact on the industry at large. I would argue that the Steam Deck would not exist without the Switch. There have been other mobile consoles in the same form factor (most obviously the PSP and PS Vita), but by the mid-2010s, smartphones had cannibalized that form factor significantly (even Nintendo's 3DS line had 50% lower lifetime sales than the original…

> If it weren't for the Switch innovating in this form factor, I doubt that the mobile console form factor would exist at all today (except maybe for those shells where you plop your phone into to get a D-pad for your mobile game).

How is a Switch materially different from a laptop, or a tablet with a controller strapped on to it?

> If we want to cut down on e-waste, we should rather lengthen the smartphone replacement cycle. That's a better impact just because of sheer numbers. Lobby for replaceable-battery mandates in smartphones and a minimum duration for security updates of 5 years or even 10 years.

Why not both? Disposable devices are bad, needing duplicate devices in the same form factor is bad, DRM is bad (especially when it's locking down how you can use or repair your own hardware). Tackling one doesn't prevent anyone from tackling the rest. We need to fix all of them

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#288

Post by vlunkr »

Duralias wrote: post #273
vlunkr wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Steam deck doesn't just threaten the outdated hardware of the switch in terms of games and gaming performance, it threatens Nintendo's platform on its own turf. I really doubt it. - It doesn't include a dock or any external controller without paying more. This was the entire pitch for the Switch - It's more expensive and has worse battery life. Better graphics don't matter that much on a tiny screen. (Game Gear…

Got a Steam Deck (not only a flex, it is to give context to my answers) - I do wish I could take of the sides and plop the screen down like a Switch, mostly because it is cool. And it is less of a complete package without a dock, but if you don't want to play docked at least you aren't paying for e-waste. - The Steam Deck is an enthusiasts device, I think the price is great for the hardware. And if graphics doesn't m…

> The Steam Deck is an enthusiasts device

I think this is the key point here. It might seem like I'm hating on the Steam Deck but I'm really not. I'll probably get one eventually, but IMO it's in no way a threat to the Switch.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#289

Post by TMWNN »

realusername wrote: post #272
mkdirp wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" For example: "What would happen if all companies blocked individuals from doing what they want with the hardware they bought?" You get a hacking community and people imprisoned for the unlocked hardware they paid for. Not to mention a whole lot of ewaste that could otherwise work for years. No, that's not a good example. How about this one: "Wh…

> I'm not aware of any company going under directly because of piracy You can go further than that, there's never been a study proving that piracy is making companies lose money. It's repeated ad-nauseam by lobbies but as far as I'm aware, it's just urban legend for now.

>You can go further than that, there's never been a study proving that piracy is making companies lose money.

One empirical demonstration of piracy's impact on sales (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement#Softwar...>):

>Will Wright said that Raid on Bungeling Bay sold 20,000 copies for the Commodore 64 in the US, but 800,000 cartridges for the Nintendo Famicom with a comparable installed base in Japan, "because it's a cartridge system [so] there's virtually no piracy".

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#290

Post by crtasm »

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #283
jmyeet wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

this is what irks me the most, piracy is stealing and even its name says it. If you steal then thats your problem, but its wrong morally and is gross to do without reasons.

If you're sailing along then a pirate makes a perfect copy of the cargo in your hold and bids you good day, did they steal anything?
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