Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube • Hacker News Board

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#271

Post by JoshTriplett » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 11:47 AM UTC

avindroth wrote: post #149

JoshTriplett wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One might say that you bought a license to a game One might claim that, and that claim should be rejected.

Isn’t this how the market works? You don’t own the game - you own the game on the platform, for as long as it lasts. This is the base rule for console games. You kinda know the deal when you buy it.

Multiple court cases have established that emulation is legal, and that emulators are "transformative". "This innovation affords opportunities for game play in new environments".

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#272

Post by realusername » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 12:25 PM UTC

mkdirp wrote: post #170

jmyeet wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

> A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" For example: "What would happen if all companies blocked individuals from doing what they want with the hardware they bought?" You get a hacking community and people imprisoned for the unlocked hardware they paid for. Not to mention a whole lot of ewaste that could otherwise work for years. No, that's not a good example. How about this one: "Wh…

> I'm not aware of any company going under directly because of piracy

You can go further than that, there's never been a study proving that piracy is making companies lose money.

It's repeated ad-nauseam by lobbies but as far as I'm aware, it's just urban legend for now.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#273

Post by Duralias » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 12:58 PM UTC

vlunkr wrote: post #104

jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

> The Steam deck doesn't just threaten the outdated hardware of the switch in terms of games and gaming performance, it threatens Nintendo's platform on its own turf. I really doubt it. - It doesn't include a dock or any external controller without paying more. This was the entire pitch for the Switch - It's more expensive and has worse battery life. Better graphics don't matter that much on a tiny screen. (Game Gear…

Got a Steam Deck (not only a flex, it is to give context to my answers)

- I do wish I could take of the sides and plop the screen down like a Switch, mostly because it is cool. And it is less of a complete package without a dock, but if you don't want to play docked at least you aren't paying for e-waste.

- The Steam Deck is an enthusiasts device, I think the price is great for the hardware. And if graphics doesn't matter then with this enthusiast device you can lower the graphics and get comparable to switch battery life, or tune it to be better.

- The only hardware this applies to is the Steam machine, everything else is still supported, literally all of it is still supported with updates.

- With the steam deck verified system, they make you well aware when you are about to play a unsupported/unchecked title, if you stick to "verified" and "playable" then you'll have a console experience, one with more optional knobs to play with. Also installing windows on this thing would ruin so much of it.

- They have no marketing now, but after reservations are filled it does make sense to start having ads and maybe selling it in third party stores, we'll have to see.

- Emulation can only get better, it is just ARM.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#274

Post by an_ko » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 12:59 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #131

jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

I think you're getting emulation and piracy a little bit muddled, which to be fair is a common reaction.

An emulator is just an API-compatible device. It is legal to make and sell an emulator. It can be used for playing legit and pirated copies of games, just as the original console can. It's a healthy form of competition (like between PC manufacturers), resulting in better performing hardware for the consumer.

The comment you're replying to doesn't mention or defend piracy. They're only saying Nintendo's Switch hardware is lacking so people are searching for a better performing alternative, and Nintendo is using anti-competitive legal trickery to suppress alternatives, instead of improving their product.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#275

Post by antifa » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 1:12 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #131

jeroenhd wrote: post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

> ask "what would happen if everyone did X?"

I think a better question would be "what if it were possible to buy 90% of Nintendo's historic catalog to play on the switch instead of less than 1%?"

I emulate because I already know the retro games I want a) cost $15-30 b) would cost that if available, are never on the eshop anyways so I don't even bother checking and c) I remember when SquareEnix android games accidentally, and carelessly, deleted everyone's saves because they arbitrarily forced offline single player games (NES/SNES final fantasy series) to be online-only cloud saves.

We're at the tail end of a decade of being shat on and in some cases Nintendo just refusing to sell us the products we want to buy.

The entitlement is not with the users in this case.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#276

Post by jpambrun » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 1:15 PM UTC

ylyn wrote: post #246

lmm wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is it immoral for me to have no kids because it means the extinction of the human race? Yes! > Is it immoral for me to have 3 kids because it means exponential growth, overpopulation, famine and destruction of the Earth? If we follow the logic to its end, the only moral choice is for everyone to have not 1, not 3 but exactly 2 kids. Limiting to 2 would cause the extinction of the human race. Some people should have…

>> is it immoral for me to have no kids because it means the extinction of the human race? > Yes! This is a flawed rule then.

The birth rate of 1.5 children per women in Canada for example is unsustainable. Having it less than 2.0 means a lot of people are not pulling their weight in society. While there are other factors, not having children is immoral. For one, who will take care of you once you are no longer active? Our system relies on the next generation tax to pay services to elderly.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#277

Post by antifa » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

PebblesHD wrote: post #13

fermentation wrote: post #6

Nintendo has a history of being very anti-emulation (see https://www.nintendo.com.au/legal/information ). With their stance it's no wonder their own first-party emulators are so poorly made.

> Also, the limited right which the Copyright Act gives to make backup copies of computer programs does not apply to Nintendo video games. That seems like quite an assertion, largely untested in Australian courts I would assume, as our consumer watchdog is usually pretty good at ensuring we’re able to exercise what relatively few rights we do have in regards to purchased products.

> does not apply to Nintendo video games

Nintendo's opinion is obviously false and easily ignored.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#278

Post by antifa » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 1:57 PM UTC

avindroth wrote: post #157

chaostheory wrote: post #122

It's hard to defend what Nintendo is doing because no one can actually buy old NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, and Wii titles online legally.

Why is Nintendo obliged to provide older content, or otherwise allow emulation? If a company ceases to provide something, does that give you rights to acquire that something illegally?

Nintendo is not obligated to offer services people would pay for, that's true.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#279

Post by avindroth » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

namlem wrote: post #238

avindroth wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Nintendo obliged to provide older content, or otherwise allow emulation? If a company ceases to provide something, does that give you rights to acquire that something illegally?

Legally? No. Morally? Yes.

How are they morally obligated (or suggested) to provide access to older games?

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#280

Post by avindroth » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #232

avindroth wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Nintendo obliged to provide older content, or otherwise allow emulation? If a company ceases to provide something, does that give you rights to acquire that something illegally?

> Why is Nintendo obliged to provide older content, or otherwise allow emulation? Provide older content, no, "allow" emulation, yes. It's not even "allow", Nintendo doesn't have the authority to allow or disallow anyone from making, distributing and running emulators.

They might not have the legal authority, but is their firm stance against emulators morally questionable? I may agree their methods are questionable, but I don't know if their stance is. Nintendo's stance against emulation seems consistent with their approach to game design and game management.