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Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

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Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#181

It's hard to defend what Nintendo is doing because no one can actually buy old NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, and Wii titles online legally.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Mario-Galaxy-Marketplace-Br... I realize that's not a digital download, but these titles were never offered as digital downloads, and Nintendo isn't obligated to use the exact format which suits your needs. (And while Nintendo isn't directly profiting from used sales, high prices on the secondary market make their new games seem like good investments.) (If we were talking about WiiWar…

> I realize that's not a digital download, but these titles were never offered as digital download

That's not a good excuse.

> Nintendo isn't obligated to use the exact format which suits your needs

You're right. They're just providing a really good argument for the continuation of mass piracy of their products.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not acceptable to prohibit a use case because some people are using it for illicit purposes, assuming that all aren't. Game producers would like to claim that all such uses are fundamentally illicit. The point of my comment was to reject that claim, not to claim that the majority of users are licit. (There's a separate argument that I'd also make that all such uses should be entirely accepted, but that's an orth…

Why is it not acceptable if a machine is not being used for its intended purposes and most people using it are for pirating games? Why is there any notion of acceptability for a company’s rulings on how their copyrights should be protected?

> Why is there any notion of acceptability for a company’s rulings on how their copyrights should be protected?

From a legal perspective, there's not, companies can attack copyright infringement even if they don't do it in a moral or acceptable way.

However, from a legal perspective, emulators don't violate copyright and neither do videos teaching people how to use them. So if we want to talk about the acceptability of Nintendo claiming copyright on emulator videos, and if we want talk about the morality of emulating systems that are current-gen, and if we want to talk about the "typical use case" of emulation, then we're not really talking about laws anymore. In the context of those questions, it is valid to talk about whether or not a company's motivations are "acceptable", because we're not talking about legality.

The law is already settled on this point, building and distributing emulators is legal activity, even for current-generation systems. Social convention/responsibility are the only things people can debate about emulators. And legally speaking, at least a portion of these videos are probably fine (of course, Nintendo is unlikely to be called out on this because nobody wants to get sued even wrongfully over a Youtube video). We can debate whether or not they're responsible to make and post online, and we can debate whether or not they contribute to piracy, but legally they're probably not copyright infringement.

Nintendo is under no legal obligation to wield its copyright acceptably or responsibly, but also people who build emulators are under no legal obligation to make sure that no one pirates Nintendo games. I don't like how these conversations often get framed in a way where Nintendo is judged only on its legal obligations, but people who build and talk about emulators are judged on subjective social responsibilities that have nothing to do with the law.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#183

It's hard to defend what Nintendo is doing because no one can actually buy old NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, and Wii titles online legally.

Why is Nintendo obliged to provide older content, or otherwise allow emulation? If a company ceases to provide something, does that give you rights to acquire that something illegally?

It doesn't give anyone the rights to anything. What it does though is provide a massive incentive for piracy. While I don't pirate myself, I can see many rational people do it for Nintendo products, and I don't have a good argument against it.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#184
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the Steam Deck does with Switch games that run notoriously poorly, like Age of Calamity.

I'd be interested to know how it does with Breath of the Wild as well. Animal Crossing, too. We own both games, but the Switch's long load times hamper my fun. It's especially a problem in Animal Crossing. Last time I looked, it took an uncommonly powerful computer to emulate BoTW, but I haven't looked in a long time.

Botw is quite easy to emulate these days. Even iGPUs like the one in my 5900H laptop can run it at 30+ fps at 1080p resolution.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#185
There's a really surprising amount of confusion in these comments about how copyright (at least in the US) works. More confusion than I expected to see on a site like Hackernews. Emulators are legal, including emulators for current-gen systems. Switch emulation is exactly as legal as Gameboy emulation.

You can argue current-gen emulators are irresponsible, you can say they're mostly used for piracy, but Nintendo doesn't have a right to stop people from talking about emulators. Taking down videos that talk about emulators is not Nintendo protecting its IP, it is an abuse of the DMCA or other non-DMCA tools in Youtube to shut down conversation that Nintendo has no legal right to shut down. Nintendo does not have the legal right to demand people not talk about emulators or share how they work, that's not a right that IP law grants. To say that they're protecting their IP is just false, they're claiming IP rights that they don't have.

Of course in this scenario, no one is going to challenge these takedowns because no one wants to get sued, and the stakes are ultimately unbelievably low. But a video about how to install an emulator is probably not copyright infringement, and (IANAL), I would be very surprised to see Nintendo get a positive ruling if they actually sued someone over showing how to install an emulator on a computer. Again, IANAL, but I'm not even sure you would claim fair use in a case like this. Fair use is a defense for violating copyright, and emulators don't violate copyright.

Discussions about the morality of emulation and the proliferation of piracy are fine, this can be a complicated subject with moral ramifications. But legally speaking, at least in the US, emulators are not piracy and talking about them is not copyright infringement.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#186
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to know how it does with Breath of the Wild as well. Animal Crossing, too. We own both games, but the Switch's long load times hamper my fun. It's especially a problem in Animal Crossing. Last time I looked, it took an uncommonly powerful computer to emulate BoTW, but I haven't looked in a long time.

Botw is quite easy to emulate these days. Even iGPUs like the one in my 5900H laptop can run it at 30+ fps at 1080p resolution.

My weekend plans have changed.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#187
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However their revenues almost entirely comes from the new and not the old. Games don't go into syndication and get tv reruns. They are kept alive by the emulation community and I would argue it builds support for Nintendo's IP rather than do them damage. Note that in this case, we're talking about a Switch emulator. > Playing on a PC is going to be a worse experience in almost every way. I mean, not necessarily. I…

> The only exception I can think of is the PS2; PCSX2 can play PS2 games directly from a standard optical drive I'm not sure of anything else directly as easy, but both the PSP and Wii could be made to rip their own disks, with the appropriate firmware installed, and some PC DVD drives were apparently Wii-disc compatible, but not all. As you say though, it's extra work even then. I think I would probably buy the game…

DVD drives that can read Wii discs are super rare, but here's an interesting one—BluRay drives that can PS3 discs are quite common!

Unfortunately, ripping them still isn't an easy process. Last time I did this I needed three different programs: A generic ISO creator followed by "PS3 ISO Patcher" and then finally "3k3y ISO Tools".

This is an area where I'm actually a bit disappointed in emulator developers—RPCS3 ought to automate this process. I realize they're working for free in their spare time, but... if you're going to say that your software is intended to be used legally, I think you have some responsibility to make that the legal path accessible.

> I think I would probably buy the game and then download from an internet source, if I wanted to emulate but stay honest.

Sure, and I've done this to, but there's basically zero chance of anyone doing that at a larger scale. What we want is for the level of friction required to acquire and play a legitimate copy of a game in an emulator to be at least somewhat comparable to the effort required to find and download a pirated copy.

People who play on real hardware are much more likely than emulator users to track down actual games. I suspect that's because—even though piracy is readily available and quite easy on these consoles—using a real disc can feel a lot more straight forward.

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it not acceptable if a machine is not being used for its intended purposes and most people using it are for pirating games? Why is there any notion of acceptability for a company’s rulings on how their copyrights should be protected?

> Why is there any notion of acceptability for a company’s rulings on how their copyrights should be protected? From a legal perspective, there's not, companies can attack copyright infringement even if they don't do it in a moral or acceptable way. However, from a legal perspective, emulators don't violate copyright and neither do videos teaching people how to use them. So if we want to talk about the acceptability…

Thank you for the detailed reply

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#189
post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

[deleted]

Re: Nintendo is removing switch emulation videos on Steam Deck from YouTube

#190
post #131
post #2

Nothing new here. Nintendo hates emulation with a passion. It passionately hates ways people enjoy their devices and platforms in ways they didn't intent. It hates fan projects, it might even hate its fans. Nintendo has a long history of lying in legal documents like DMCAs to take content that doesn't please them down. To be a dedicated fan of Nintendo's franchises is to be a masochist. The Steam deck doesn't just th…

I'm all for emulating systems that don't exist anymore. But this commenter's level of naive entitlement is beyond obnoxious. A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist. Maybe you'd be happy about this. Plenty of people wouldn't. Switches are generally available and not that expensive. If you want to play Switch games, buy one. If you don't, don'…

> A good rule to live by is to ask "what would happen if everyone did X?" In this case, Nintendo would cease to exist.

Like PC game studios ceased to exist?

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