Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

Post by cma » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 3:15 AM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #148

Armisael16 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely isn’t the same. The square packing in the first picture uses pi/4 ~ 79% of the space; the second uses pi/(2*sqrt(3)) ~ 91% of the space. They don’t bother with smaller secondary batteries because the extra manufacturing cost and operational complexity isn’t worth it for a 5%-10% bump in volumetric energy density.

Didn’t someone prove about 15 years ago that there’s an oval shape that packs tighter still? Given the hollow core that could probably be done, but cylinders are probably easier for the assembly line to handle. So then it comes down to whether that space is being utilized (for cooling, or weight per cubic inch of the support structure).

Post by vanviegen » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #161

vanviegen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't you feel bad about buying a new car? Surely the environmental impact of creating such a large piece of machinery must be very significant? I don't care what people do with their money, but let's try to be frugal with our environment.

Replacing a gas car with an electric car is always a win for the environment. Driving the car until it's a rust bucket just creates needless carbon emissions.

Post by gwbas1c » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 2:56 AM UTC

vanviegen wrote: post #164

gwbas1c wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replacing a gas car with an electric car is always a win for the environment. Driving the car until it's a rust bucket just creates needless carbon emissions.

Is that true even if you only drive a relative small amount is miles per year? And how do you know that? Building car takes a lot of energy and uses irreplaceable resources.

Post by hwillis » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 4:41 PM UTC

nightski wrote: post #51

hwillis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for the record- it only takes about 21k miles of driving (a year or two for most people) to release as much CO2 as the production of the battery for a long range Tesla Model 3. The standard range Model 3 comes in just under 16k miles. It seems to me like most people expect more. Also, I don't think EV prices have really changed that much. Chip shortages haven't really affected it. High gas prices and inflation a…

Does this assume the electricity is emission free? Because where I live less than 40% of our electricity is from renewables (even those aren't completely 0 carbon impact, as they have to produce panels/wind mills/etc...). The rest is from oil & gas plants. I understand you are comparing driving an ICE vehicle vs. production of an electric one. But it seems a little misleading to ignore the co2 impact of driving the e…

Post by hwillis » Wed, Mar 02, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #150

hwillis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for the record- it only takes about 21k miles of driving (a year or two for most people) to release as much CO2 as the production of the battery for a long range Tesla Model 3. The standard range Model 3 comes in just under 16k miles. It seems to me like most people expect more. Also, I don't think EV prices have really changed that much. Chip shortages haven't really affected it. High gas prices and inflation a…

There was a time where the embodied energy of efficient vehicles was much higher than bad ones and it made the objective math a lot fuzzier. Maybe things have gotten better.