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Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

reuters.com

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Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#21

Post by mrfusion »

kube-system wrote: post #9
Gravityloss wrote: post #3

This cylindrical form factor might make sense for batteries that have thermal runaway potential, to keep the unit size small so that the whole battery doesn't go into thermal runaway, only one cell. But for LFP or iron based batteries which don't have such issues, the blade design should be cheaper, more maintainable, more space and weight efficient etc. There's no glue so you can actually just switch individual blad…

Sounds like the form factor Toyota has used in their NiMH packs for basically forever. They’re surprisingly serviceable for DIYers.

So Toyota still uses nimh in its hybrids? Does that make them longer lasting?

Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#22

Post by luxurytent »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #15
luxurytent wrote: post #11

As a Canadian who's currently driving a 9 year old Mazda 3, I'm waiting for the day it decides to call quits so I can move to an EV (9 isn't that old, so I'm hopeful at least another 2-3 years) That said, I wish there was a site that simply told me now's the right time to buy an EV. With supply chain issues, long waits for a new car, government rebates, and the influx of new inventory/models, it's hard to keep up whe…

I'm guessing in about a year. Supply chain problems, primarily chips but also some other parts, continue to plague auto manufacturing. In my industry (RFID), we're expecting the pipelines to unclog in about Q1 of '23 though we might see some relief before then. In late '22 there will likely be a wave of car buying, from pent-up demand, dumping lots of used cars on the market. Might be a good time to shop used. You mi…

Good advice, noted. Thank you!

Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#23

Post by hwillis »

luxurytent wrote: post #11

As a Canadian who's currently driving a 9 year old Mazda 3, I'm waiting for the day it decides to call quits so I can move to an EV (9 isn't that old, so I'm hopeful at least another 2-3 years) That said, I wish there was a site that simply told me now's the right time to buy an EV. With supply chain issues, long waits for a new car, government rebates, and the influx of new inventory/models, it's hard to keep up whe…

Just for the record- it only takes about 21k miles of driving (a year or two for most people) to release as much CO2 as the production of the battery for a long range Tesla Model 3. The standard range Model 3 comes in just under 16k miles. It seems to me like most people expect more.

Also, I don't think EV prices have really changed that much. Chip shortages haven't really affected it. High gas prices and inflation are probably the only numbers you really need to worry about.

https://www.oliver-krischer.eu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/En...

https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php

The math: standard/long-range Model 3 batteries are 62 and 82 kWh. First link puts GHG byproducts of production at 75 kg/kWh- 4650 and 6150 kg. Mazda 3 gets 30 mpg combined and the second link gives 8.78 kg CO2 per gallon.

Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#25

Post by gameswithgo »

luxurytent wrote: post #11

As a Canadian who's currently driving a 9 year old Mazda 3, I'm waiting for the day it decides to call quits so I can move to an EV (9 isn't that old, so I'm hopeful at least another 2-3 years) That said, I wish there was a site that simply told me now's the right time to buy an EV. With supply chain issues, long waits for a new car, government rebates, and the influx of new inventory/models, it's hard to keep up whe…

The future always has the potential to be better but now is already very good, unless you have specific needs, like towing a big trailer long distances etc.

Most people who own EVs have been loving them and working out well.

Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#26

Post by ajross »

felipemnoa wrote: post #16
luxurytent wrote: post #11

As a Canadian who's currently driving a 9 year old Mazda 3, I'm waiting for the day it decides to call quits so I can move to an EV (9 isn't that old, so I'm hopeful at least another 2-3 years) That said, I wish there was a site that simply told me now's the right time to buy an EV. With supply chain issues, long waits for a new car, government rebates, and the influx of new inventory/models, it's hard to keep up whe…

I guess it depends a lot on the mileage but I know people with 20 year old Toyota Corollas with more than 200 thousand miles that are still going strong. No crazy maintenance costs either.

FWIW: that's a survivorship bias effect. Old cars don't have "crazy maintenance costs" until they do, at which point they get scrapped and aren't in the population of "old cars" anymore. It's absolutely possible to find 20 year old Corollas (or whatever). But that's not representative. (Also, those 20 year old cars tend to be running around with components from a bunch of parted-out 14 year old vehicles!)

Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#27

Post by gameswithgo »

hwillis wrote: post #23
luxurytent wrote: post #11

As a Canadian who's currently driving a 9 year old Mazda 3, I'm waiting for the day it decides to call quits so I can move to an EV (9 isn't that old, so I'm hopeful at least another 2-3 years) That said, I wish there was a site that simply told me now's the right time to buy an EV. With supply chain issues, long waits for a new car, government rebates, and the influx of new inventory/models, it's hard to keep up whe…

Just for the record- it only takes about 21k miles of driving (a year or two for most people) to release as much CO2 as the production of the battery for a long range Tesla Model 3. The standard range Model 3 comes in just under 16k miles. It seems to me like most people expect more. Also, I don't think EV prices have really changed that much. Chip shortages haven't really affected it. High gas prices and inflation a…

For the co2 equivalency analysis you really need to compare the total GHG byproduct of the production of each entire car and their fuels. The EV has a battery which is energy intensive to produce, but some of that would also be required to build and engine/transmission etc.

and extracting oil and turning it into gasoline and delivering it has GHG byproducts, as well as producing and delivering electricity.

Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#29

Post by ButchC »

"Panasonic Corp (6752.T) said on Monday it will begin mass production of a new lithium-ion battery for Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) before the end of March 2024 at a plant in Japan."

Was this detail added by the article writer? Unless something has changed, Tesla cells are produced at the Tesla factories. These 4680 production lines are for Panasonic to sell to customers.

Actual press release: https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2022/02/en22022...

Re: Panasonic to begin mass producing new 4680 Tesla battery by March 2024

#30

Post by kube-system »

mrfusion wrote: post #21
kube-system wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the form factor Toyota has used in their NiMH packs for basically forever. They’re surprisingly serviceable for DIYers.

So Toyota still uses nimh in its hybrids? Does that make them longer lasting?

They currently use some of both NiMh and Li-ion. Toyota is notoriously conservative when choosing technologies. My guess is they still use a lot of NiMH because they have proven long-term reliability, more forgiving characteristics in harsh use, and they already have a lot of existing tooling to support them.

If there any single car that has made the general public comfortable with very expensive batteries in their car: it’s the Prius.

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