Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 592 posts

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#501

Post by karpierz »

InGoodFaith wrote: post #486
tomp wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but it does introduce other variables. E.g. age is important for lung cancer as well as smoking. Only when controlling for age do you get correct estimate about the danger of smoking. What other variables does "Nigerian immigrants" introduce besides skin color and culture? The latter is eliminated by most US sociologists that keep screaming "it's not about culture!" so only race remains...

Isn't the fact that they immigrated likely bias towards the higher skilled echelon that managed to go through the visa process? When you say "outperform most domestic US groups", are you normalising for the same skillset and education levels? Perhaps a source to accompany your statement will help shed some light.

Don't forget to control for:

- Wealth upon entry (If all Nigerian immigrants come from millionaire families, then it doesn't matter if they're underpaid; they'll be far wealthier than most Americans)

- Location (If all Nigerian immigrants live in New York City, then the effect size of being underpaid can be masked by the higher income (and cost of living) in New York City)

- Profession/Job Title (if all Nigerian immigrants are neurosurgeons, then it doesn't matter if they're underpaid; they'll be way above average income)

- Age (if all Nigerian immigrants are older, then they'll have had more time to generate skills/wealth, which could mask the effect of being underpaid)

- Health (if all Nigerian immigrants are healthy, then the effect of being underpaid could be masked by the fact that many Americans are less productive due to health issues)

There are obviously more confounders, but doing an analysis using these would be a good place to start to actually answer the question.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#502

Post by mathattack »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #80
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #47

In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ran…

I saw the same at a prominent financial services firm. 50 - 60 Indians in the same dept from the same region. A big number. I even asked a senior manager if I needed to be Indian to excel at the company. He said the very fact I asked that question is a problem, whether or not it is true.

This is similar to having the first 30 engineers all come from the same school. Helps with speed in the short term but sub-optimal in the long term. This is why forms like Google centralize hiring.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#503

Post by commandlinefan »

intrasight wrote: post #314

I don't "hide" the fact that I am Italian (couldn't if I had my mom's maiden name) but nor do I tell anyone - because a) they don't need to know and b) it's of no relevance. Honest question: why is it different with caste? Rather than "hide" it, why not have it a non-thing?

My grandfather changed his German name in the 30's to something very non-German sounding. He never went into much detail as to why, but I have a pretty good guess.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#504

Post by _-david-_ »

andybak wrote: post #470
kortilla wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common way to define racism is: negative prejudice + power This is an idiotic way to define racism that makes it completely subjective to give the wielding accuser of racism to be highly discriminatory while claiming not to be bad.

Idiotic or not, it's widespread in academia. And some would argue that there are fairly objective ways to define "power" Personally I'm on the fence about these definitions but it annoys me to see people dismiss them as "idiotic" without engaging with the level of serious thought that has been put into them by sincere people. Disagree once you've spent a day or two surveying the subject. Or even an hour or two.

It doesn't matter if it is popular in academia. Nobody outside of academia uses it and they are trying to force a language change. Languages of course change, but it should be done naturally not by force.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#505

Post by commandlinefan »

jmyeet wrote: post #51

It's crazy to me to see people saying "this doesn't exist because I've never seen it". Here's a good rule to live by: privilege is invisible to those who have it. Just think about that. I'm not Indian so can't speak to that experience but discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't t…

> "this doesn't exist because I've never seen it"

By that logic, bigfoot, UFO's and the Loch Ness monster all exist.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#506

Post by random314 »

perfecthjrjth wrote: post #499
random314 wrote: post #190

Ambedkar was an intellectual giant who wrote the Indian constitution. Glad to see him profiled here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._R._Ambedkar Jurist economist academic politician social reformer anthropologist writer

The reality is otherwise. It was drafted by a bureaucrat called BN Rau. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._N._Rau

This really goes to the heart of what casteism is all about in a modern urban "casteless" setting. Any time a lower caste does anything of significance, upper caste detractors show up to tell everyone that the good stuff was actually the work of someone else of upper castes. The lower caste made his mark only through affirmative action or other kinds of "trickery". The constitution was obviously written by several people and the team was led by Ambedkar. You can use the same website- wikipedia- to inform yourself of Ambedkars contributions to society in general and the constitution in particular. Go and pick up a book written by him too if you have the time.

One of the nastier pieces of "information " about Ambedkar that an upper caste kid shared with me as a child was that Ambedkar was actually the bastard child of a Brahmin with a lower caste woman. This explains why he was so smart as all lower castes have very low IQ.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#507

Post by [deleted] »

thumbsup-_- wrote: post #356

> A pat on the shoulder might be a friendly greeting—or a search for a sacred thread that some dominant-caste Hindu men wear beneath their shirts I'm a non-dalit Indian working in silicon valley. I know that caste based discrimination is still prevalent in India and not surprised that it continues in here in silicon valley as well amongst Indian community but I'm surprised to read this part in the article. I have nev…

[deleted]

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#508

Post by zxienin »

commandlinefan wrote: post #500
zxienin wrote: post #67

I am from “upper caste”. My experience might not be commonly heard perspective. In 10th grade of schooling, my parents changed my lastname to avoid that folks figure out the caste. Due to affirmative action (aka reservation) on steroids, upper caste were losing opportunities. My parents wanted to avoid that I lose out on selection, promotions.., where subjective discretion was involved. I do not recall ever seeing ca…

> upper caste were losing opportunities I wondered about that right away - is any of this just sour grapes from lower caste folks taking it out on higher caste folks now that they're in an environment where the playing field is suddenly level?

I suspect so. Maybe justifiably so.

The challenge is to transition into equal rights mode, rather tribal one. Sooner the better.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#509

Post by vmception »

unmole wrote: post #312
vmception wrote: post #57

One day it occurred to me that I can tell if someone is from India, but that I'd never considered to notice more nuances than that, for such a big country with so many groups of people. I have just begun to notice, but I have no idea about the identity politics. I recall in college that some of my friends from India would fawn over certain last names, and I felt it was something to do with the caste system, but I had…

> One day it occurred to me that I can tell if someone is from India Can you really tell if someone is from India and not from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh? Because I can't and I am from India.

After hearing their name, dialect and seeing their mannerisms, yes, I can tell. Several other comments mentioned there is an overrepresentation of specific groups from India, within the US, so I am attuned to recognize that group as "Indian heritage".

These things are rarely as simple as looking at someone visually from afar or in a lineup and making a complete decision.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#510

Post by commandlinefan »

jonny_eh wrote: post #39
hemantv wrote: post #36

Quoted post unavailable.

Nobody in America has ever been racist to me, therefore racism doesn't exist.

The converse of that is "I've never seen it, therefore it does exist". That would suggest that bigfoot, UFO's and the Loch Ness monster are all real.
Post reply on HN