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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#51

Post by jmyeet »

It's crazy to me to see people saying "this doesn't exist because I've never seen it". Here's a good rule to live by: privilege is invisible to those who have it. Just think about that.

I'm not Indian so can't speak to that experience but discrimination masquerading as "culture fit" is just as rampant in Silicon Valley as it is in the rest of the US. This includes racism, ageism, misogyny and classism. If you don't think MIT/Stanford grads in their mid 20s at Big Tech companies have more doors open to them you're crazy.

There is a tendency in the West to view all minorities as somehow being the same. Like all Africans are somehow viewed the same in many ways despite their being significant cultural, religious and language differences that go back centuries. The same is true in Asia (eg a lot of Chinese in Malaysia face significant discrimination such that they end up going to university overseas because they can't locally).

So a deeply ingrained caste system like India's I can totally believe doesn't magically disappear because those raised in that system now happen to live and work in the United States.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#52

Post by sparky_ »

johntiger1 wrote: post #31

as a complete outsider to the caste system, say i was american-born or otherwise "white-washed". would I still be subject to this system?

Fellow outsider here. Got curious and did some searching; would love to hear from some real Indian folks to confirm or deny this line of reasoning.

As non-Indians, it seems we exist outside the system, which could be ambiguously interpreted to either have no connotation at all, or to exist at the bottom of the social strata. [1]

Anecdotally, the kind of treatment you'll get in practice depends a lot more on your race and national origin. [2]

1: https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/3898/what-caste... 2: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/let-s-talk-about-r...

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#53

Post by Bhilai »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #12
belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

A lot of it is FUD. California withdrew it's Cisco case but you wont' see any coverage of that here. https://thewire.in/caste/california-drops-caste-discriminati... I am from India and have been in the US for more than a decade. I come from a low caste. The only folks who have asked about my caste and asked if I am from a higher caste are white Americans due to my vegetarianism (voluntary for ethical reasons). > Do y…

Who is spreading the FUD and why?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#54

Post by oh_sigh »

rednerrus wrote: post #21
avalys wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution you propose is arguably just as bad and I suspect it might be illegal in the US. If I am a qualified manager or tech lead, and there is an opportunity to lead a new project, I would be furious to learn that I was passed over for the opportunity because someone believed I was ethnically incompatible with one of the people on the team.

The comment was about not allowing them in the interviewing process.

If interviewing is considered a normal job function, isn't not allowing certain people to interview certain people a violation of EEO laws by discriminating based on a protected class(national origin)? Unless you have some specific knowledge that an employee just can't handle people of nationality X, I would be very hesitant to institute OP's advice, at least in the US.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#55

Post by User23 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually does occur to me, mostly because I'm curious if all of my coworkers are of Brahmin caste. It doesn't matter to me personally, but obviously it would be of interest if all of the people in the Managerial or Lead roles are from a certain caste, while all of the lower-level Devs are in another.

Couldn't that be a follow-on effect from a lifetime of advantages in education and opportunity costs? It's not necessary to imagine a special Brahmin-loving company administration.

It’s also a general pattern that follows from human assortative mating. Then add to that inheritance laws and over the centuries the upper classes can acquire serious cumulative advantages. Of course it occasionally backfires, such as in the case of Habsburg inbreeding.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#56

Post by pinephoneguy »

txcan wrote: post #2

Only to be bogged down by a level higher "country-of-birth" based discrimination system for GreenCards in the US.

Countries have borders, we invest a lot of money in our children and people and would like a return on that investment. In order for that to be possible we have to reject the people who would abuse the system.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#57

Post by vmception »

One day it occurred to me that I can tell if someone is from India, but that I'd never considered to notice more nuances than that, for such a big country with so many groups of people.

I have just begun to notice, but I have no idea about the identity politics. I recall in college that some of my friends from India would fawn over certain last names, and I felt it was something to do with the caste system, but I had concluded that the people I was around in universities and in the workforce were mostly from a level of privilege that it wouldn't be possible to learn more. I always found Indian nationalism to be strange, where so many people would interject that everything is perfect. Makes it easier for me to avoid my own US nationalism, because it must be just as comical to others.

In this article it mentions Dalit. How many people from that group would be in Silicon Valley, is it impossible to know since it is insensitive to ask and disastrous for them if people did know?

Seems like there is a potential for solidarity amongst more vocal groups pushing for representation.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#60

Post by 12ian34 »

pinephoneguy wrote: post #45
12ian34 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Indian born with British nationality and I look Indian. It doesn't bother me if people ask me where I'm from - I am often curious about where others are from. It does, however, start to slightly grate if upon me responding with "I'm British", I am quizzed further with "But... where are you really from?" I hear this less nowadays, but it used to be common enough to "slightly grate", particularly from older, Caucas…

Obviously your ancestors aren't British so there's something to the "where are you really from" question. I've been asked similar things even as a White American.

Sure, but imagine the scenario that you're one of about 5 non-white people in your entire school life, and the area you lived in has a similar demographic. You might feel generally more alienated from society. It might make it slightly harder to accept/understand your own identity, and being quizzed about it further (at times when you've already mentioned your nationality) is unlikely to help.
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