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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#481

Post by thowaway_2mar »

mama123 wrote: post #237
random314 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India dalits are about 20%. In Silicon valley, I would be surprised if they are more than 2%. India is like 3 different countries when sliced by caste. The highest castes are about as privileged as the typical Chinese. The middle are at sub saharan Africa levels. The bottom 25% constitute probably the most deprived population in the world. Better off than the Rohingyas but not by too much. "Jay Bhim" is a great mo…

The movie is quite controversial as it twists reality to target and tarnish specific castes. The perpetrators in real life were Christians but portrayed as Hindus. The Hindu villagers who in real life helped the victim seek justice are portrayed as casteists who hinder justice. A lot of literature, news articles and movies are made to exacerbate the problem and create problems where none exist.

I don't doubt you, at all. Most of this catholic priest are from the upper caste community.

1) https://scroll.in/article/876000/is-the-caste-system-deep-ro...

2) https://www.jstor.org/stable/44144111

3) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-11229170

4) https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/dalit-catholics-continu...

The leadership of Churches in India remains in the hands of upper-caste Christians, and they are as bad as their Hindu counterparts.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#482

Post by tomp »

karpierz wrote: post #471
tomp wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often having darker skin, Black Americans are even prone to more discrimination domestically. Any editorial that doesn't recognize that fact as a truth has no legs to stand on in my opinion. Nigerian immigrants outperform most domestic US groups. So clearly "skin color" isn't the main factor (if at all).

Jamaicans are even more prone to be poorer than Americans. Would your retort be "but Jamaicans who've won multiple gold medals in sprinting are wealthier than most Americans?" People who smoke are more likely to get lung cancer. Would your retort be "13 year olds who smoke have less incidents of lung cancer than the non-smoking population?" If you subsample enough, you'll find outliers. That doesn't invalidate genera…

No, but it does introduce other variables.

E.g. age is important for lung cancer as well as smoking. Only when controlling for age do you get correct estimate about the danger of smoking.

What other variables does "Nigerian immigrants" introduce besides skin color and culture? The latter is eliminated by most US sociologists that keep screaming "it's not about culture!" so only race remains...

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#483

Post by Lascaille »

shankr wrote: post #457
Lascaille wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Refugees of Indian and African origin aren't being allowed to cross borders or board trains. One man's crisis is another opportunity. I wonder how hard it is to enter the Ukraine now and then cross to Europe with no papers as a 'refugee, formerly expat-student.'

> 'refugee, formerly expat-student.' They want to go back to India, not go stay in another European country. What do you think they are going to do when they arrive in another EU country? They can't stay there as refugee since they have Indian passport and India isn't fighting some war. Also being refugee is no fun either. I can't believe some people feel like there is some fun to walk over to a country without any r…

>what do you expect is the solution

Arm them and bus them to the frontlines, pour encourager les autres?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#484

Post by MisterSandman »

unmole wrote: post #306

I have no trouble believing that people carry their casteist prejudices to Silicon Valley or that they act out their casteism in vile ways. But when I read stuff that is so clearly nonsensical, I start questioning what embellishment factor I should I account for. > Questions about a person’s last name or home village can be seen as invasive attempts to identify caste. A pat on the shoulder might be a friendly greetin…

Your home village might not be all you need, but it's part of the overall investigation that some Indians do to "figure out" someone's caste. I've seen it happen to my dad all the time when we're in another city or country.

Stop pretending like you don't know what I'm talking about. You're either lying to yourself or being ignorant. I'm sure many things in the article are embellished, but stop reducing other people's experiences.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#485

Post by franklampard »

ramraj07 wrote: post #84
jewayne wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you see the danger or irony of stigmatizing the discussion of bias.

You threw a racism uno card by asserting that the Japanese guy was racist with zero proof. You’re stereotyping people as much as you accuse others of.

I didn’t think of racism until I saw this.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#486

Post by InGoodFaith »

tomp wrote: post #482
karpierz wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jamaicans are even more prone to be poorer than Americans. Would your retort be "but Jamaicans who've won multiple gold medals in sprinting are wealthier than most Americans?" People who smoke are more likely to get lung cancer. Would your retort be "13 year olds who smoke have less incidents of lung cancer than the non-smoking population?" If you subsample enough, you'll find outliers. That doesn't invalidate genera…

No, but it does introduce other variables. E.g. age is important for lung cancer as well as smoking. Only when controlling for age do you get correct estimate about the danger of smoking. What other variables does "Nigerian immigrants" introduce besides skin color and culture? The latter is eliminated by most US sociologists that keep screaming "it's not about culture!" so only race remains...

Isn't the fact that they immigrated likely bias towards the higher skilled echelon that managed to go through the visa process?

When you say "outperform most domestic US groups", are you normalising for the same skillset and education levels?

Perhaps a source to accompany your statement will help shed some light.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#487

Post by dominotw »

rdelfin wrote: post #340
dominotw wrote: post #297

> For Siddhant, who now lives in the South Bay in a $2 million home, wearing his father’s Ambedkar watch reminds him of where he comes from—and where he still wants to go. Even now, whenever the stakes seem especially high, he’ll put on the watch and double-check that his shirt sleeves are long enough to conceal it. comon this is a bit over the top. Is this for real??

Do you mean the home or the watch thing? Either way, it doesn't sound as far fetched. People will still judge you no matter how well you do for shit like this if they see you as inferior. It's very easy for them to explain away your success, be it affirmative action, hiding your past, or even calling it pure dumb luck. Hiding a watch with a clear symbol of the caste you belong to does seem plausible

maybe wearing an symbol of your caste to work on purpose puts people on the edge? also i have no idea what 'ambedkar watch' is, not sure if most people even know about this symbol of caste.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#488

Post by unmole »

MisterSandman wrote: post #484
unmole wrote: post #306

I have no trouble believing that people carry their casteist prejudices to Silicon Valley or that they act out their casteism in vile ways. But when I read stuff that is so clearly nonsensical, I start questioning what embellishment factor I should I account for. > Questions about a person’s last name or home village can be seen as invasive attempts to identify caste. A pat on the shoulder might be a friendly greetin…

Your home village might not be all you need, but it's part of the overall investigation that some Indians do to "figure out" someone's caste. I've seen it happen to my dad all the time when we're in another city or country. Stop pretending like you don't know what I'm talking about. You're either lying to yourself or being ignorant. I'm sure many things in the article are embellished, but stop reducing other people's…

> but it's part of the overall investigation that some Indians do to "figure out"

A village is next to useless in terms of identifying one's caste.

> I've seen it happen to my dad all the time when we're in another city or country.

How? There are more than six million villages in India. Do these people maintain a distributed database of some sort?

> I'm sure many things in the article are embellished

How much of it is embellishment is exactly what I'm wondering.

> but stop reducing other people's experiences.

Maybe come up with a convincing argument rather than ask people to take your word for it.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#489

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

karpierz wrote: post #471
tomp wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often having darker skin, Black Americans are even prone to more discrimination domestically. Any editorial that doesn't recognize that fact as a truth has no legs to stand on in my opinion. Nigerian immigrants outperform most domestic US groups. So clearly "skin color" isn't the main factor (if at all).

Jamaicans are even more prone to be poorer than Americans. Would your retort be "but Jamaicans who've won multiple gold medals in sprinting are wealthier than most Americans?" People who smoke are more likely to get lung cancer. Would your retort be "13 year olds who smoke have less incidents of lung cancer than the non-smoking population?" If you subsample enough, you'll find outliers. That doesn't invalidate genera…

That's not at all how I interpreted the parent comment.

I read it as the types of hardships and barriers that, say, a US descendant of slaves faces can be very different from a Nigerian immigrant, and that's one problem with lumping everyone with the same skin color together as "Black" when calculating diversity metrics.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#490

Post by unmole »

zxienin wrote: post #459
russelldjimmy wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps if something doesn’t make sense, ask for clarity instead of asserting that changing one’s surname makes zero difference. I am also familiar with many upper-caste people who have changed their surname to something generic (like Kumar) to avoid revealing their caste. This doesn’t just apply to job seeking in private enterprises. They do this to avoid any kind of attention drawn to their surname, and hence caste…

yes. Surname change was to avoid revealing caste. No appropriation of "lower caste" to get favorable quota. I have no evidentiary way to conclude if change ended up helping me or not. I just never had to face caste based discrimination. I shared the experience, so folks on this forums come out knowing more than what is typically seen in media. No rhetoric. There is no denying, that problem is real.

> There is no denying, that problem is real.

The problem of people from dominant castes facing discrimination on the basis of their surnames is wholly imaginary.

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