Tell HN: If You Are in Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#801

Post by mkr-hn » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:04 PM UTC

willis936 wrote: post #642

9214 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting and valid point. Though, even if I could, why would I? Forming a bond (be it faked or real) with a person who might end up despising you for your blood (which you are trying to escape), and then trying to integrate into a hostile foreign culture — it's like trading one hellhole for another. It might be worth the struggle in case of a sincere relationship, but not just for the sake of saving my…

These are valid concerns. There are racists everywhere. From what I can gather most of the US view race as skin color, so I think you are shielded from the most overt racism.

The US has a complicated relationship between colloquial and academic definitions. Academic is useful for understanding and discussing the history of systemic issues, but sometimes people try to over-fit them to avoid recognizing someone's suffering as legitimate or serious enough to warrant advocacy.

Most people here will apply the colloquial definition which is more or less another word for xenophobia. An academic racial analysis could help understand why someone who's seen as white and foreign is often treated better than someone born here, but someone trying to do that as an explanation for why you shouldn't care about a Russian immigrant's feelings would be rightly seen as a jerk.

There might still be some prejudice, as analyzed in this classic stand-up bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OB72GZOS4c

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#802

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

anonymousDan wrote: post #372

ausudhz wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the airspace of half of the world is closed for Russia how you think they can even fly? They've sanctions that would even make it impossible for normal people to do a bank transfer in their "new" country.

There are plenty of land borders, a flight isn't necessary.

This underestimates the size of Russia substantially. Borders to the West are all pretty much closed. Which makes the minimum route 1000's of km with all kinds of complications along the way.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#803

Post by koonsolo » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #798

koonsolo wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine was also a non-democratic country, until the people decided otherwise. And yes, it was pretty brutal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

> Ukraine was also a non-democratic country, until the people decided otherwise That's not true. The President of Ukraine who was overthrown in 2014 (Yanukovych) was democratically elected in 2010 in an election that international observers called fair, truly competitive, and an impressive display of democracy.[1] That President was supported mostly by the people of eastern Ukraine and opposed by the people of wester…

True that he was democratically elected. But it's hard to call a government democratic when they shoot and kill protesters.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#804

Post by mbg721 » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:07 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #803

leereeves wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukraine was also a non-democratic country, until the people decided otherwise That's not true. The President of Ukraine who was overthrown in 2014 (Yanukovych) was democratically elected in 2010 in an election that international observers called fair, truly competitive, and an impressive display of democracy.[1] That President was supported mostly by the people of eastern Ukraine and opposed by the people of wester…

True that he was democratically elected. But it's hard to call a government democratic when they shoot and kill protesters.

Walling themselves off from (edit: potential) protesters at taxpayer expense is still good, though?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#805

Post by leereeves » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:08 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #803

leereeves wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukraine was also a non-democratic country, until the people decided otherwise That's not true. The President of Ukraine who was overthrown in 2014 (Yanukovych) was democratically elected in 2010 in an election that international observers called fair, truly competitive, and an impressive display of democracy.[1] That President was supported mostly by the people of eastern Ukraine and opposed by the people of wester…

True that he was democratically elected. But it's hard to call a government democratic when they shoot and kill protesters.

I'd say instead that it shows that being democratic doesn't preclude being corrupt and authoritarian.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#806

Post by ssijak » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:08 PM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #777

ssijak wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want biggest nuclear power in the world totally alienated long term?

If you meant Russia, there has to be consequences for its actions, so yes. Nobody wanted the war or to have to impose sanctions. If you meant it as a praise, biggest nuclear power, after some point it doesn't matter anymore, both US and Russia can destroy the world by themselves. (also note that warheads on wikipedia doesn't track MIRVs, each of those can split off in space and target multiple cities on reentry) In N…

No praise, just a fact. There should be consequences, I agree 100%, I am just afraid that some kind of consequences could provoke even worse outcome in mid-long run.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#807

Post by goto11 » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

CyberSimon wrote: post #567

Are any countries accepting refuges from Russia that seek asylum? I know some Russians that are wholly against their Government's actions. I hope some provisions are being made to allow those who wish escape to do so...

In Europe you can generally only get political asylum if you are considered personally at risk of persecution. So just disagreeing with the government would not be enough.

The current refugee crisis is going to be a challenge for Europe. I think most countries would rather spend their resourcing on helping the direct victims of the war rather than Russians fleeing from the consequences of the sanctions.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#808

Post by drcongo » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

qnsi wrote: post #729

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are any countries accepting refuges from Russia that seek asylum? This is an important topic. Some EU countries like Czechia are even blocking visas for Russian citizens now and I think this will be a trend in other EU countries. AFAIK, since Russia is the aggressor here and is (on paper) a democratic country (but not really), then its citizens are not considered yet victims of the war, and are most likely not falli…

CNN finds that twice as many Russians believe it would be right for Moscow to use military force to prevent Kyiv from joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as say it would be wrong. One out of every two Russians (50%) says it would be right, while only a quarter (25%) say it would be wrong. The other quarter (25%) are unsure, according to the survey. But the poll also found that more Russians think it…

Imagine answering "don't know" to any question that starts with "would it be right to use military force", let alone those questions.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#809

Post by denton-scratch » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

willis936 wrote: post #395

denton-scratch wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or a new government to replace Putin with that would act any different This. I'm tired of the personalisation of the behaviour of the Russian government. Putin didn't launch this war all on his own; he's the head of government, he isn't Napoleon Bonaparte. I'm uncomfortable about the sanctions regime that is being imposed. If the Russian economy is destroyed the result will be chaos, even if the war ends tomorrow,…

This take is unconvincing. What benefit is the invasion to the bureaucracy and oligarchs? This is the result of a megalomaniac puffing his chest.

The man's whole schtick is puffing up his chest. That's what he does (and it means he's unlikely to back down; very bad look for a bare-chested man of action).

But pronouncing psychiatric diagnoses on him isn't very enlightening. If he's a megalomaniac, then half the world's governments are headed by people who are similarly mentally ill. Discounting aggressive foreign leaders as "mad" is bound to lead to incorrect conclusions and bad decisions.

He seems to be motivated by some pseudo-mystical beliefs about Russian national history and destiny. I imagine that by now, there are few at senior levels in the Russian administration that don't share his views. Oligarchs are a different kettle of fish; they're not nationalists, they're egotists. But from what I've read, oligarchs have nowadays been largely supplanted in government by old buddies of Putin from the intelligence services.

I suspect his generals will be the first to crack. They will be worrying about mutinies in their largely-conscript army. Their soldiers didn't sign up for a civil war against their "brothers" (which is what this war is, according to Putin). And generals tend to be practical, rational people.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#810

Post by rightbyte » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

ihateolives wrote: post #346

alephnan wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had nothing to do with it". I'm sorry, but you had everything to do with it. This is easy to say when you have the privilege of living in a rich/developed country with free access to information and where you can increasingly voice your opinion without risking imprisonment or worst. Most people, especially in developing co…

> Most people, especially in developing countries, are struggling to make ends meet and don't have time for ideology. Most people in developing countries also do not have a lunatic with their finger on nuclear button. Russia currently does. If people don't see the need for ideology right now then we're all properly fucked, not matter on which side of the border you live. This time it's not like all the other times.

> If people don't see the need for ideology right now then we're all properly fucked

I believe we need to opposite. Cold hearted real politics going for deescalation. Screw right and wrong and ideology. There is way too much emotions now and I am getting scared for real ...