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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#391

Post by ysamjo »

ihateolives wrote: post #294
teekert wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I realize it is perhaps hypocritical, but somehow I thought we had figured it out. I mean we (EU and US) also could have done more talking less warmongering. I’m also disappointed with our leaders.

You do realize that only thing EU and US have done about Russia escalating situations all over the place (Crimea, North Caucasus, Georgia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Dagestan etc) is talk, talk, talk. Has it helped? Nope. Russia seems to be immune to talking.

I would add that the unspecifity of the threat was what kept Putin going.

Consider what would have happened if "The West" handed Putin a detailed list of the sanctions that are in effect now A WEEK AGO.

Lower costs and lower risks. That's why far-sighted politics are so important.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#392

Post by modo_mario »

fabian2k wrote: post #161
godmode2019 wrote: post #155

I think its very sad normal Russian people are going to be targeted when European countries are still buying oil and gas from Russia 700million a day going straight to the war machine. Europeans pretend to care and sanction everything except for the oil and gas that is funding that war. There should always be a difference between government and people. All these sanctions are harming normal people, essentially econom…

It's simply not possible to change the infrastructure that fast. Gas is used for heating, that's not optional in winter. Europe needs to build more LNG terminals (which they decided to do) and order gas from other countries that have the ability to greatly increase their output. This all takes time, but in the long run Europe will stop being as dependen on Russian gas and oil as they are now, Putin made sure of that.

>and order gas from other countries that have the ability to greatly increase their output.

Which is why the west fucked up in Syria and Russia got a great deal. Now Syria blocks gas pipeline options from Qatar at Russia's behest.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#393

Post by dragonwriter »

alangibson wrote: post #374
0x138d5 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not gonna argue on that whataboutism part buuut.... >Russia has a legitimate gripe against NATO expansion. The successor to the occupying CCCP, that did wildly shady stuff all over the Caucasus, invaded Georgia, supported a rebellion in Donbas, annexed Crimea and invaded a corrupt but nonetheless somewhat democratic Ukraine using GRAD strikes against cities has a legitimate gripe over countries WILLINGLY joining a de…

> legitimate gripe over countries WILLINGLY joining a defensive pact. I will always support self-determination. Ukraine was obviously justified in wanting to join BUT you cannot expect a country that counts casualties in the millions every time it gets invaded to not get its hackles up about a nuclear armed alliance specifically aimed at containing it expanding up to its doorstep. I look forward to seeing Putin on tr…

> expanding up to its doorstep

NATO started out bordering Russia, it hasn't “expanded up to it's doorstep”. Get a map and a list of the original NATO countries.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#394

Post by drran »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #368
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

US has been blowing up afghan villagers (and kids/babies) for last 20 years. You only noticed this now?? Have you been living inside a watermelon.

Why US was in Afghanistan in the first place? Uh, they blow up American city...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#395

Post by willis936 »

denton-scratch wrote: post #295
astrange wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The country (Russia) in its current form has just ceased to exist. I’m not too sure about this. The main problem is there isn’t a new form to replace it with, or a new government to replace Putin with that would act any different - for instance, not constantly assassinating people in Europe with chemical weapons. It does seem like a good time to leave, although an even better time would’ve been before the currency…

> or a new government to replace Putin with that would act any different This. I'm tired of the personalisation of the behaviour of the Russian government. Putin didn't launch this war all on his own; he's the head of government, he isn't Napoleon Bonaparte. I'm uncomfortable about the sanctions regime that is being imposed. If the Russian economy is destroyed the result will be chaos, even if the war ends tomorrow,…

This take is unconvincing. What benefit is the invasion to the bureaucracy and oligarchs? This is the result of a megalomaniac puffing his chest.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#396

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

ogogmad wrote: post #254
teekert wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I realize it is perhaps hypocritical, but somehow I thought we had figured it out. I mean we (EU and US) also could have done more talking less warmongering. I’m also disappointed with our leaders.

You think that talking to Hitler is going to stop a war?

In this particular case talking to Putin makes no sense, he only understands force. Talking makes sense much earlier but even then actions are more important.

Take for example the Middle East: there is no way you could solve the problem by talking, especially now. Palestinians believe this is their soil, the Israeli think otherwise, the former send rockets, the latter shoot these rockets and send their pilots, the pilots see the attackers tied to children on the roofs... This has gone too far over the years.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#397

Post by pydry »

simonh wrote: post #373
pydry wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

Either you believe in democracy, or you do not. If the Ukrainian people want to join the EU or NATO, and our people want them to join us as well, they have the right to make that choice as free sovereign people, and we should back them up. Any other response is itself subjugation, and capitulation to terror.

I do believe in democracy. It doesnt change anything about what I just said.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#398

Post by Ambolia »

jopsen wrote: post #361
ajuc wrote: post #215

Basically Russia becomes North Korea or Putin dies. It's sad, but honestly, Russians tolerated the situation for far too long and the externalities were paid by everybody around them.

Yeah, the wind is blowing that way.. But we still haven't stopped buying oil/gas. And if we did, China might buy it instead.

I'm sure China will be very happy to absorb as many of Russia's natural resources as needed and to provide and alternative to SWIFT.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#399

Post by pyb »

jdrc wrote: post #235
anovikov wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian here. This is not misinformation or anything. This is just because yes, vast majority of Russians from all walks of life are pure evil. Even those living in the Western countries for decades. I have deleted myself from all social networks 5 years ago and people keep sending me screenshots from Russian facebook groups in Cyprus and that makes me freak out. Nearly everyone is pro-Putin. Ridiculous posts get hun…

this is becoming a theme with immigrant communities, in a similar vein how german Turks are supportive of Erdogan. I'm sure those people are not evil, but this phenomenon is worthy of investigation.

As an anectode, I spoke with a Turk who found Turks living in Germny much more conservative than people in Turkey.

Not to mention Brits who moved to Spain because there were "too many bloody immigrants" at home.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#400

Post by wnkrshm »

squarefoot wrote: post #302
kungito wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

Chechnya war also was very close and nobody cared since they were mostly Islamic, and the war in the former Yugoslavia happened just in the middle of Europe, but apparently many have already lost memory of it despite the atrocities committed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

I've been reading up on the history of the Bosnian genocide, I should probably also read up on Czechnya.

I really hope that Ukraine won't go down like Czechnya but I fear in the end, Putin only knows one trick.

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