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Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

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Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#81

Post by reitanqild »

capableweb wrote: post #30
perihelions wrote: post #27

Tangentially, if you appreciate being able to read raw, unfiltered OSINT like OP (@OAlexanderDK) dug up, you'd be interested to know Twitter mistakenly suspended his account twice in the past three days [0] -- one among a large number of legitimate OSINT people covering Ukraine. The existence of this kind of HN thread is fragile. You can also read Twitter Site Integrity's apology and response [1], or independent repo…

To add to the list of unfiltered OSINT straight from Ukraine/Russia, Telegram channels/groups are invaluable (but treat everything as unconfirmed rumors until confirmed elsewhere): - https://t.me/uniannet - https://t.me/ukrpravda_news - https://t.me/istorijaoruzija - https://t.me/dumskaya_net - https://t.me/idelator Beware, some of these are literally Russian propaganda, so again, don't take anything being said/share…

No post body was provided.

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#82

Post by isoprophlex »

reitanqild wrote: post #81
capableweb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to the list of unfiltered OSINT straight from Ukraine/Russia, Telegram channels/groups are invaluable (but treat everything as unconfirmed rumors until confirmed elsewhere): - https://t.me/uniannet - https://t.me/ukrpravda_news - https://t.me/istorijaoruzija - https://t.me/dumskaya_net - https://t.me/idelator Beware, some of these are literally Russian propaganda, so again, don't take anything being said/share…

Quoted post unavailable.

What the actual flying fuck happened there, that's intensely horrible. War is hell.

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#83

Post by deutschewelle »

chefkoch wrote: post #73
leephillips wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is blame on both sides Say what now? > One thing I understand about Western European culture is that they will never tell you no outright as it is rude to do so. Generally speaking, no, this is not one thing you understand about W. E. culture.

You have never been to western europe? Berlin is famous for this.

[flagged]

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#84

Post by Accujack »

borgchick wrote: post #62

So are soldiers from both sides, either on foot or in vehicles in full radiation suits??? If not, aren't they at severe risk of radiation poisoning (in addition to rapid on set lead poisoning)? Not to mention if they continue past chernobyl into other regions, aren't they just gonna carry all that radiation with them?

>aren't they at severe risk of radiation poisoning

No. Radiation effects are based on time and exposure level, and even with dust kicked up they're not likely to spend enough time there that it makes them sick at all.

Breathing in radioactive material from the dust is a bit more of a problem, but I'd expect they're wearing at least basic masks outdoors.

No radiation suits, though.

They'll carry some dust with them wherever they go, but like dust from anywhere else, it will slowly be dispersed on roads and in rain gutters. It's not "instant death dust" so while it will increase background radiation somewhat where it lands, unless someone eats or breathes a lot of it, they won't be affected.

So, still not a good thing, but not something that's a huge problem compared to flying bullets.

Now, if they punch a hole in the new safe confinement and a lot of water gets in, that will be much more of a problem.

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#85

Post by etiam »

newsclues wrote: post #20
sschueller wrote: post #17

What strategic purpose would taking Chernobyl have other than maybe securing the site and preventing someone from blowing a hole in the sarcophagus?

You hold a position to launch attacks from that are hard to counter attack. Setup your artillery there and they can’t just shell the area back out of fear of causing a nuclear disaster. IMO, the UN should have stepped in and taken control of the nuclear zone. There is a global risk here.

Well put.

Also, take the following with more than a grain of salt as I'm in no way really knowledgeable about such systems, but I would imagine both the area itself and temporarily disturbing it could be valuable as cover for nuclear weapons. One valuable tool for keeping track of them involves detecting and analyzing escaped isotope traces, and that's going to be harder to pick out and make sense of against that noisy background.

As I understand it, nuclear weaponry still features prominently in Russia's military doctrine and it's worth noting that not only the military but Russia's whole citizenry have been trained and prepared for nuclear fallout, to a much greater extent than most nations seem to prioritize today.

In addition to artillery I imagine for instance certain kinds of anti-air systems might be attractive to put on a site like that. Any further suggestions? They could have taken weeks to bring equipment in during the "military exercise" with Lukashenko's troops, so I guess few things are truly off the table.

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#86

Post by ornornor »

nuccy wrote: post #52
awb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the environmental / health risks of this radioactive dust getting kicked up?

Unless there is a strong wind it likely will settle back, especially since it is a thick forest around the station.

I don’t know about where you live but here in Europe there have been storms warnings with pretty strong winds in the last week. Not a meteorologist and I have no idea how that would impact radioactive dust spread.

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#87

Post by reitanqild »

isoprophlex wrote: post #82
reitanqild wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

What the actual flying fuck happened there, that's intensely horrible. War is hell.

What happened is Russian soldiers, either cocky or terrified depending on how much they knew came driving down the road and suddenly the entire thing shook violently,

(the rest is my best understanding based on things I learned years ago):

temperature rose quickly to become unbearable as the missile stuck the the armour and the warhead sent a payload of molten brass (or something) through the solid metal. As the poor blokes try to escape it seems like something more has gone ablaze as you can see they are frozen while trying to run.

Russians going into Ukraine should just as well put sunflower seeds in all pockets and write "this side up" on the front, then at least the grave can look nice in the summer.

It's insanely ugly and I have tears in my eyes even if this is the best outcome.

Edit: read for yourself, seems the Javelin missile kills the tank crew somewhat more humanely by just sending a multi atmospheric shockwave into the box instead of how these seems to have had time to fear and try in vain to escape.

Edit 2: My bigger point is, if you can somehow avoid being part of the attempted invasion of Ukraine it might be worth going some distance to avoid it.

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#88

Post by ornornor »

sschueller wrote: post #17

What strategic purpose would taking Chernobyl have other than maybe securing the site and preventing someone from blowing a hole in the sarcophagus?

Isn’t it still generating electricity (with the reactors that didn’t melt down) for the region despite everything? I guess as an invader, you’d want to control the power plant.

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#89

Post by User23 »

reitanqild wrote: post #87
isoprophlex wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the actual flying fuck happened there, that's intensely horrible. War is hell.

What happened is Russian soldiers, either cocky or terrified depending on how much they knew came driving down the road and suddenly the entire thing shook violently, (the rest is my best understanding based on things I learned years ago): temperature rose quickly to become unbearable as the missile stuck the the armour and the warhead sent a payload of molten brass (or something) through the solid metal. As the poor…

> temperature rose quickly to become unbearable as the missile stuck the the armour and the warhead sent a payload of molten brass (or something) through the solid metal. As the poor blokes try to escape it seems like something more has gone ablaze as you can see they are frozen while trying to run.

Sounds like a shaped charge[1]. I know a man who was drafted during the Korean War and at first he thought it would be lovely to be in a tank protected from harm. Then he got trained on using shaped charges on old German panzers and decided he was happy to be infantry.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge

Re: Radiation spikes in Chernobyl

#90

Post by c7DJTLrn »

This is ridiculous panic. They haven't cracked open the NSC or anything like that. It's just dust. Long lived radionuclides kicked into the air that emit alpha and beta radiation - practically harmless unless you're playing around in it like a sandpit. Please don't let your attention be diverted from the matter at hand.
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